Discussion in 'Linux' started by CHEF-KOCH, Nov 8, 2017.
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I do believe the Linux Desktop is gaining popularity. Just not to the extent that NetMarketShare's reports. Probably just an anomaly in their algorithms. Windows 10 does seem to grate on some people (myself included) and Apple's hardware has been lagging for a while. Linux is getting better every day but I don't expect a mass migration any time soon. Maybe in 2020 if MS drops support for 7 we will see some movement.
That would be my guess. When M$ drops support I will drop M$. I will clean install Win7 with no updates, and block access to the net. It will be just there for any program I need to run that I can't run on Linux.
As a Windows user who has flirted with Linux a number of times over many years it seems to me that Linux developers don't really care.
I have installed a number of Distros over the years. When the installation is finished you not only have an operating system that is unfamiliar you are also faced with a mountain of software you have never heard of and you have no idea what purpose the software has. When you go to the developers web site there is usually no reference to the software package, if there is a list it is too brief to be of much use, usually they bang on about Libre Office and that's it. Why on earth don't these guys use cross platform software that is well known? It would be great to look at a detailed list of the packaged software and try it out in Windows first, become familiar with it before making the jump, a soft gentle glide into the Linux world rather that landing with a bump. No wonder so many people quickly switch back to MS.
I am a big fan of open source software, my Windows PC has cost nothing to set up, most of the software I use is cross platform. My first job on installing Linux is to get shot of all the developer selected bollocks and install more familiar tools, mostly the same software I have been using in Windows.
Torvalds said in interview that people use what's installed on the devices they buy, that is one major reason. The other is gaming and distro support for it, it's still a mess.
For everything else Linux works. For my use I prefer Linux, it's better than windows for most things, less headaches with updates and all apps get updates not just the system. But I have over 700 items in steam and of those only about 40 run in Linux, so a Windows box is still needed.
I agree with you. I also belong to the Linux Mint forum, and when Windows 10 was first released in July 2015, we experienced a fairly good surge in new members. It seems a lot of them had been disappointed by Windows 8/8.1, and were even more disappointed with Windows 10, so much so that they decided to take the plunge into Linux. I imagine an equally large or even larger group of people have refused to upgrade to Windows 10 and have made the decision to hang on with Windows 7 right to the bitter end. We'll see what happens with them in January 2020.
In response to the poll at the beginning of this thread, I must say "None of the above". I've been using Linux for the past 4 years.
I guess most distributions are not assembled with the sole purpose of converting Windows users to Linux users. They probably choose packages that Linux users are familiar with, regardless of if they are cross platform or not. I here what your saying though. I always prefer to use software that is cross platform because I work in both Windows and Linux and it's nice to be able to use the same software in both.
With that said, it's up to the user to make the effort. If your on Windows and looking to move to Linux then do your own homework. Make a list of the software you currently use and look for cross platform alternatives. Once you are happy with these then you can make the switch on your own terms. No distro is going to able to do this for you. At least you can install all the software directly from the package manager in Linux. And you won't have to spend several hours cleaning out all the crappy OEM software that was installed for kick backs.
I think we are saying the same thing here. My point is that Linux has its own bloat, software included that is not needed or wanted, there may not be a kick back but its still there and has to be sifted through and removed. My point is that if the Linux developers want to increase their market share they should offer at least one distro that provides a smooth transition with cross platform apps. Zorin appears to provide a smooth transition but this is just visual, you are still confronted by a large amount of unfamiliar software, why? I suspect that the developer incorporates what will work. There is so much content in the "App Store" that just doesn't work on your distro of choice, it takes a month of Sundays to get up and running if you have no experience in that environment.
I fall into the gaming category. My laptop runs Arch for crawling the web and paying bills but my gaming rig runs both windows and arch each with their own SSD and hard disk.. sorry but it's a night and day difference. For me there aren't enough "pretty" looking games. Put Dark Souls 3 or skyrim w/mods on linux natively or some of the other windows only games like Assassins Creed and I'd dump windows all together. One day maybe.
Talking about bloat: Although there may be some software you consider "not needed" on a vanilla Linux install, most Linux programs are only single digit or tens of MBs in size so over all a typical Linux install only 5-8 GB in size even when you include these software such as LibreOffice and such. On the other hand Vanilla Windows 10 install takes up typically 20GB or so. That's not too bad, but the problem is with the way Windows installs and uninstalls a program. Many residue Registry and configuration residues still remain after a program is uninstalled, which leads to the Windows OS being slower and slower over time. Not to mention the monthly Windows Update which dumps GBs in size, tens of thousands files on your HDD. This is more than ridiculous. Linux update is clean and removing a program will not lag your OS since Linux does not use a Registry feature, the normally only MBs of files for every Linux update. It's clean and simple while Windows update is messy and clunky.
Just because you are not familiar with a software package on Linux, you consider it "unwanted". This is not really a way to explore Linux. If you have this mindset, you'd better go back to Windows. Linux is not for everyone, at least for now.
IMHO, Linux has -never- been for everyone. And it never will be. Not as long as you have many different 'flavo(u)rs' and distros, each advancing their own agendas.
And every one of them bickering among(st) themselves, claiming to be right with everybody else being wrong. (or doing it wrong)
If nothing else, Windows is a unified front, relieving the user of technical thought processes that they may or may not want, or may not be capable of doing.
And people are willing to pay so that they have that, and that they don't have to deal with those headaches. (Yes headaches. When you run a business, you don't want to care about the internals; you just want to get it done.)
There are a lot of great things about Linux. User friendliness is definitely not one of them.
And Yeah. I agree with you about the registry. When I write software, I only use it if I -absolutely- must. I don't use it to store my app settings.
My apps always have a settings file associated with them. The user should be able to move my App folder with minimal problems.
I find that refreshing about Linux.
This thread is about market share, it wont improve unless the transition process is improved. Windows is still far more flexible and user friendly than Linux, the only reasons to switch are privacy and the downtime due to constant updates. Should MS change their approach they could kill Linux overnight, just release the LTSB as Windows 10.1 and commit to respect the privacy of their customers, job done.
One thing I have to take you to task over, running Windows is no more costly than running Linux. Since Windows 7 each upgrade has been free, if you buy or build a new machine a legit license can be purchased online for £10-15, this is less than you will have to part with when switching to Linux as you will probably have to change some hardware/peripherals that lack driver support. A lot of Linux software now has a price tag to match Windows versions, so its pretty even cost wise.
@Kim100: I don't see your post as "taking me to task" as much as I see it as bringing up important points that I did not cover in my post.
IMHO, You're right about a typical Windows system being more cost effective than a Linux system. If that were not so, I do not believe that Corporations
would have adopted Windows as the de-facto standard. Granted if a machine is designed to support Linux from the ground up, it stands a better chance
of grabbing as much Market Share as a Windows system. But the total system cost would be heavily weighted to the hardware.
Not to mention that the hardware may end up being proprietary.
And you're totally correct about some Linux software having the same price point as the corresponding Windows software.
A good example is Steinberg Cubase and its' Linux equivalent. The learning curve alone makes the switchover a complete showstopper.
Talking about market share, yes certainly right now Windows is dominating. But the situation you mentioned is highly unlikely to happen. Why? Because every business decision is not made over the top of a CEO's head, it's made based on numerous weighing of numerous business factors, and the decision made is considered to be the best choice for the development of the business. Do you think that Microsoft is not aware that people still prefer Windows 7? No, Microsoft knows it, but it also knows that the Windows 10 model will benefit them the best, so they promote relentlessly the Windows 10 model - i.e., instead of selling OS as a product, it now tries to give consumers a free OS but sell users' privacy to profit. Obviously this model works well.
The other point I want to say is that although Windows is still dominating in the OS market, it does not mean that Windows OS is the best for everyone. Individual or business may not select Windows based on how user friendly and how secure Windows is, but because the software applications they need only have a Windows version - i.e., the whole ecosystem. Like myself - I use Ubuntu on my main PC but still keep a spare PC running Windows 10. The only use for my Windows 10 PC is to run Excel/Word/PPT on it, since I need to share these documents with my co-workers and the formatting could have some unexpected change even between WPS Office on Linux and MS Office on Windows. So I have to use MS Office on Windows. For me, if WPS Office and GIMP is the de-facto program in their respective category, I'll ditch Windows right now.
So no, MS does not have the ability to kill Linux overnight, and Linux won't gain rapid increase in market share unless the whole Linux eco-system is gaining more ground.
I can't agree with this at all. Windows it not more flexible than Linux. Maybe you have a different definition of flexible because from where I stand Windows is very rigid. I'm talking about broad use cases like using Linux in anything from small embedded systems, TV's, phones, servers, routers, desktops and anything in between. If your just talking about desktops then I'm not sure what you mean by flexible.
Windows is not more user friendly than Linux either it only seems like this to people who are used to way Windows works. The first compliant I often get from Windows users moving to Linux is that they can't just got to X website, download the software and double click to install it. But nobody expects to be able to do this with their Android phone or smart TV. Yet you don't hear them complaining their phone is not user friendly. If you are not familiar with something then there will always be a learning curve. No one wants to spend time relearning how to do something they have already been doing for years. This is especially true in business.
I started using Linux long before Windows 10 so a change of direction from M$ wouldn't make any difference to me. I'm sure this applies to most Linux users. But it appears that M$ are moving to a subscription model instead. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
I game a bit in my spare time (not that I have much of that these days). I have 191 games in my steam library, 91 of which run on Linux. This is a vast improvement from a few years ago. I only buy games that run on Linux since about a year ago. I still have a backlog to get through. There are plenty of games I would like to get that don't support Linux though. I prefer not to go looking for these. Ignorance is bliss . Thanks to the hard work from Valve and others developing GPU drivers and the new Vulkan API things should keep improving. As well as porting houses like Feral and Aspyr not to mention all the cross platform game engines these days. The future is looking bright.
Linux gaming has come a long. Feral and Aspyr have done great work I'm just very picky when it comes to types of games. For me, linux just isn't enough for gaming. Not yet anyways.
If MS were to release LTSB to the public ,drop the other versions and stop all monitoring of usage 99.9% of those still on Windows 7 would upgrade to 10, that would give MS total domination.
Windows and Linux are just vehicles, its the software that counts. I can find a dozen Windows programs for each task I want to carry out. As you say visit the web site, download the file and try it, if its no good keep going until you find one that suits. I call that flexible and user friendly. Its not Windows that provides the flexibility its the support from other software vendors. Linux has no choice of software at all, its very much take it or leave it. Both operating systems are on par when it comes to the OS itself, until you come to drivers, yet another pain in the arse. I have to admit that this is one area that Linux has improved a lot and Windows seems to be going backward, the poor driver support in Windows I believe to be a deliberate move to kill off aging hardware.
If MS go to subscription I will wipe it from every device in the house and never look at it again, that is one move that will be a deal breaker.
I don't understand why anyone is still gaming on a desktop, all games are written for consoles and ported across. Get a PS4 or something, they are the same price as a decent graphics card.