About programming languages and toolkit-

Discussion in 'Microsoft Office' started by unknownzd, Oct 3, 2010.

  1. unknownzd

    unknownzd MDL Member

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    Based on this ..... I know where you live now :p so I guess thats why you use .NET since no one is really skilled in MFC in the place that you come from :)
     
  2. Bosh

    Bosh MDL Developer

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    #2 Bosh, Oct 3, 2010
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2010
    About programming languages..

    You're totally wrong, using .NET has absolutley nothing to do with that.
    "Not having skilled programmers in MFC" is a nonsense statement, and FYI: Chew7 is also made in C#.

    If you were a more experienced programmer you should know that using .NET, MFC, Java, etc, has nothing to do with having someone skilled around the place you live.

    And no, I'm not upset at all. I just had to make that clear :)
     
  3. CODYQX4

    CODYQX4 MDL Developer

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    I don't know what Megaupload and MFC have to do where I'm from. I'm from America.

    PS: Toolkit is in C# as it was going to be C++ or C#. I chose C# as Bosh had previous experience with it, it manages memory better, and I had been looking for a good reason to learn C#.
     
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  4. unknownzd

    unknownzd MDL Member

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    Well if you are really inside this business ...... you will know why do people wants MFC (or even Win32) developer instead of using .NET developer (for example, valve developed their games by using VC++ 6.0, which does not use .NET @ all) ..... when we are talking about .NET and C# ..... basically it is just a copied version of Java ..... but the most important point is that when you use .NET in your program ...... they are much slower as they are having more overhead then using Win32 API or MFC one (as it does consume more jump and call instruction in asm) ...... anyway there is another problem that comes with .NET ........ all the .NET program can be easily reverse engineered (or even decompile) since lots of the thing has included in the program to provide interop between different API and functions ......... so I guess no one is really using .NET program when they have concerned about the speed and privacy as I know
     
  5. unknownzd

    unknownzd MDL Member

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    Well C# is just a copied version of Java (@ least that is what I have told by someone that ..... the language itself is just a clone of Java ...... and .NET was even not developed for Desktop environment as I know ...... it was designed to run on Windows mobile and used for Windows Mobile program to test whether it can run successfully or not without requiring to move it onto the mobile phome, and hence allowing developers to have a shorter time to develop a Windows Mobile program since they don't need to put the program onto the mobile phone to test it ..... instead they just test it on desktop environment since they already knew that all the output of .NET function is exactly the same as in Windows Mobile environment)

    btw if you really want to develop something fast enough ...... I prefer you to have a look on tutorials talking about using VC++ 6.0 or VS2005 since they still support non-.NET C++ program as I know, and Windows SDK is still using VS2005 compiler as I know
     
  6. Bosh

    Bosh MDL Developer

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    That's the problem, you think developing software comes down to Win32 API, speed, or reduced ASM code. I know, that's important, but there's a whole world beyond of that in software development, besides, the .NET framework is extemely optimized and if MFC is faster (I don't know), what would be the overhead?? 0.5 secconds? I mean, don't get me wrong, that could be very important if you're making a stock control application, but in this case, when what we need is a language that allow us to develop fast, and with a friendly and simple UI designer C# is perfect.

    I repeat, Chew7 is made in C#, and Daz's Windows Loader is made in RealBasic. BTW C# is not a copy of Java, whoever told you that has never really used them properly.

    It's OK that you think knowing MFC is good, but it's not better than knowing other techologies.
     
  7. Reign_Of_Freedom

    Reign_Of_Freedom MDL Expert

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    At this point it's irrelevant as to what language the program was made in. People have there opinions as to what works best for them and we should leave it at that. Cody and Bosh have done a wonderful job putting out a QUALITY tool for all of us to use.

    @ unknownzd You could always make this program in another language that's more suitable for you :p
     
  8. unknownzd

    unknownzd MDL Member

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  9. CODYQX4

    CODYQX4 MDL Developer

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    From what I hear the overhead of C# can be cancelled out if you make an app with C++ and don't handle memory well.

    Also, I compare the function complete time to batch and there's no significant difference. It feels slower in many cases as we don't display any output until complete in most functions.
     
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  10. Bosh

    Bosh MDL Developer

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  11. CODYQX4

    CODYQX4 MDL Developer

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    Another thing about speed.

    Most of the toolkit functions interact via WMI with OSPPSVC, like activating or checking status. (As a matter of fact, ospp.vbs is just a vbs script that uses WMI).

    For speed of these functions, we are at the mercy of WMI speed and OSPPSVC's speed and responsiveness. The toolkit in C# in speed is about the same is in batch. The programming language in our app will not add or decrease speed as we have to call WMI in one form or another. We cut ospp.vbs out to do it directly, as the output is received slightly faster and we are close to not needing ospp.vbs (therefore not needing to check for it.)

    Another thing about toolkit size, most of it is embedded resources, like the slics and reg data needed to install licenses, the exes for autoKMS, AutoRearm and keygen, etc. The app would be way smaller without them, so I don't see how actual code in memory is going to make a difference. The slowest parts of the toolkit are when we are relying on something OUTSIDE our code (like OSPPSVC or msi files we launch to repair office automatically).
     
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  12. zupipo

    zupipo MDL Novice

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    Talking about speed: I am absolutely satisfied when I can activate Office within seconds! You are doing a great work, thanks a lot.

    Greets
    zupipo
     
  13. unknownzd

    unknownzd MDL Member

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    #13 unknownzd, Oct 4, 2010
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2010
    (OP)
    lol don't make me lol so hard again ........ if you are a real worldwide certified Computer Engineer ..... you will know Java bytecode means no real portability @ all (you can't really port it into any system since only JVM supports it) ...... so please don't make me lol so hard please ........ btw gtfo with the "worldwide certified Computer Engineer" ...... those certificate can be bought easily from everywhere ...... I can even got 10 if I want (all the people in the cracking business just don't bother to do so since they know those certs mean nothing @ all ..... not really a proof @ all) (btw assembler and compiler is easy to create ..... it is just a matter of how you are experienced in a specific language and instruction set)

    btw for what you have challenged me about those things ..... I decide to create another tool that does not require any .NET and CLR support (which would use much less RAM then using a 15MB ram)

    btw try to show me how Java bytecode can be ported into another system please (and because of this reason, no experienced programmer will say that it is portable, since by the bytecode's own nature it already means no portability @ all ........ we don't use the word portability for bytecode program @ all ..... only newbies use it)

    btw what do you think about where did the words "Java *Virtual Machine*" come from? (please make notice of the words *Virutal Machine* please ..... and because of that you do not need to change the format of jars file @ all since only one arch supports it lol So why do you think that it is portable while only one arch is really supporting it? lol )
     
  14. win_seven

    win_seven MDL Member

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    WHAT is the goal of the game

    I do not see the point of this discussion it is a song that has long been famous among developers.
    but it is not essential in the case of interest here.
    Please for those who are interested please create another thread.
    and we can continue our business.

    @+
    WINSEVEN
     
  15. unknownzd

    unknownzd MDL Member

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    #15 unknownzd, Oct 4, 2010
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2010
    (OP)
    Yes actually it is but just because he still wants to waste time for saying that C# is much better then many languages on the world (actually I don't care for but just want to see how much mistake that he will make during argument) ..... anyway I will not argue with him any more since he does not really know what he is talking about ..... btw I really appreciate what he did in the past for making Office 2010 activation toolkit ...... but if he is continuing like that ..... he will not learn anything about programming @ all (prolly could be forever until he realized how those things really work in computer)

    Actually, again, I really appreciate what he did in the past for making Office 2010 activation toolkit ..... but just dislike his behaviour when he have heard something that doesn't fit his own mind or ideas
     
  16. Bosh

    Bosh MDL Developer

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    #16 Bosh, Oct 4, 2010
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2010
    You're one of the most close minded here @ mdl, java is portable wether you like it or not, that's one of the biggest advantages that java has, that's one of the advantages of an hybrid language, if you don't know what portability is, it's not my problem.

    BTW, I spent 5 years in college getting the Engineer degree, being a "cracker" doesn't give you anything, while you "crack" software in your mom's basement we the engineers are making money in the real life. I do this as a hobby, but also to contribute with others.

    And, no, making a compiler is not easy, making a touring machine model could be very complex in a language definition for example.

    I said that C# was perfect for our project, not that it was faster, not that it was better, you were the one tha came with that, son don't come to play the good one when you have no more arguments. We have our reasons to use C#, you have yours to use whatever you want to use.

    And that's it, create your own thread of your super app, decomepile the toolkit, good luck with you're project, stay out of this one.


    Thanks to win_seven for your post, I really appreciate that you get the point in this thread is to help others and not to think you know everything.
     
  17. unknownzd

    unknownzd MDL Member

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    I lol'd so hard for the following things :

    1. jars file are portable <------ the most epic joke I have ever heard (well please ask this to mod like Daz and ask this in reddit please lol ...... don't make lol'd so hard please for this sentence please)
    2. BTW, I spent 5 years in college getting the Engineer degree <------ btw this is another typical faggot statement I have ever heard ..... those degrees are usls unless you have got degrees from a university like MIT (I respect their work as making network protocol definition and finding vulns for different linux app) .... those degress are indeed crappiest thing I have ever heard (and that's why a lot of security company refuse to hire those degree graduates since those graduates are failed to learn some real things used for security ..... and I guess thats why you still haven't got a job yet)
     
  18. CODYQX4

    CODYQX4 MDL Developer

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    This is the kind of stuff that makes me lose all my motivation.

    I make this toolkit as a hobby, to learn new skills, and give everyone a nice and simplified tool to work with office vs the various scripts and people DLing 400MB folders to convert to VL.

    We don't care about the language of programming, I wanted to learn C# and like it or not I see a lot of internships, like Progressive insurance, want people who know C#, even if you think its the crappiest language on earth.

    You say you want to decompile the toolkit, reprogram it and release it. This is blatant ripping and it almost caused me to quit 2.0 before I even started.

    I had V1.2.5.0, then the O2Ack came out, bumped up a version, claiming to be optimized and better. I looked at the source and saw all my comments, variables were renamed, and it did not work. It was made for the hell of it. It disappoints me when I see it torrented more than the toolkit, when it hasn't been updated in forever, lacks all the fixes and improvements since 1.2.5.0, yet I see it everywhere.

    It was made as a me-too thing or something, as it did nothing new. I get deeply disappointed for someone to rebrand something without any innovation added, and claim it better. As you see toolkit 2.0 is continually worked on while O2Ack 1.6 is old and the topic is ancient. People who randomly found it on the net are now using it, with its problems, as it was posted.

    Everyone loses in this case, you said you wanted to decompile it and recode it to prove MFC is better. This is not the state of mind that makes a good app that the dev stands behind. You'd rip the toolkit code by decompiling, rather then learn all I've learned myself about office, port it to a language, claim that its better. You'd wait for people to give approval then you'd have gotten what you wanted, you'd have no reason to continue developing it. All the while people who don't go to this forum would DL it by torrent thinking nothing else had those features and never get updated toolkit where I have new features planned.

    So, you'd abandon it and my motivation would be destroyed to continue this if someone will decompile my hard work and call their recompile better. So both projects would die and everyone would be gone. I plan to make a toolkit for next office when it comes out, so if you push me to quit then that wouldn't happen.

    I think we should drop this as this argument benefits nobody and everyone loses if one of us gets too involved trying to one up the other.
     
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  19. dabits

    dabits Guest

    Please don't stop doing the things you love to do ...
     
  20. unknownzd

    unknownzd MDL Member

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    lol lmao ...... why do I need to decompile a rubbish toolkit while I can do everything with shell script and power shell? even the part for accessing wmi interface is directly coded in power shell already lol so I don't really need to do so ..... btw from my own opinion .... your toolkit is just a collection of batch script that made by others (which only crappy developers will use such an approach)

    btw mine one is 100% better then yours as I have found out the way to directly add a cert to tokens.dat .... it is just a matter of time and let me choose whether I will release this method or not ..... don't make me lol hard ...... you even don't know the difference between base64 encoded text and raw data file lol