Bios Mod vs Daz Loader engineers perspective

Discussion in 'Windows 7' started by regal, Jun 11, 2011.

  1. regal

    regal MDL Member

    Aug 26, 2009
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    Ok lets say you have an old obsolete motherboard with a final Bios, I guess I can see using a modded bios. The risk is low, especially if others are having good results. Undertand that bios is the crux of stability with your computer, the engineers spend many hours programming it to stability. Granted inserting a slic table in an old bios is low risk but there are reports of functions lost due to space/capacity.


    However lets say you have a new motherboard, maybe UEFI, maybe not just new. What are the advatages of a bios mod? I mean any possible target from M$ to attack the loader would disable a bios mod anyway. A new motherboard will go thru quite a few bios updates, everytime someone attempts to insert the slic there is potential for a bricked Mb for the new bios.
    A lot of folks on this forum seem to think a bios mod is superior but I just don't see it. I think newcommers, who are most likely to have new hardware should think twice about a bios mod over the loader.

    I seriously doubt that M$ will everfind a means to disable the Daz loader band not disable a bios mod, the both require a certificate and a key, those are the vulnerabilities. The Slic table loader is outside M$'s territory, breaching that would be no different that breaching bios and would be against even M$'s rules.

    Just my 2 cents.
     
  2. Shenj

    Shenj MDL Expert

    Aug 12, 2010
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    You can NOT 'detect' a bios mod.
    What they CAN do though is having a forced OEM list, if your Modelnummer isnt on the list, your windows gets invalidated.
    But this is alot of work and the probability that this gets a workaround by Day 1 is 100% :)
    So BIOS Mod is the <best> way to activate, but by far not the safest, if your mobo doesnt have some sort of protection against a damaged bios, you need a new BIOS chip/mobo if it bricks
     
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  3. Daz

    Daz MDL Developer / Admin
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    #3 Daz, Jun 11, 2011
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2011
    The loaders advantage over a BIOS mod is that it works on older systems and newer systems, allows you to easily ignore problematic SLIC's and change the location of where the SLIC gets placed. It's result is the same as a BIOS mod (loads a SLIC into memory) but it's done without making any hardware changes.

    As you've said, if you buy a new system then it will probably get some BIOS updates so if you go the BIOS mod route then each time theres an update released you'd have to re-modify your BIOS if you wanted to update. This isn't a problem with the loader. The only problem the loader has is with Windows 7 setup to use UEFI. It changes the disk to GPT and no classic 'BIOS' is emulated so theres nothing there for the loader to work with. With that said the loader will work on UEFI hardware as long as you setup Windows to use MBR instead.

    Basically the BIOS mod is permanent and secure but the loader is more flexible and appeals to a wider audience. That's not to say the loader isn't secure, in fact it's avoided every single system and service pack update :)
     
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  4. alextheg

    alextheg Super Moderator
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    Jan 7, 2009
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    Both activation methods have merit. A fundamental difference is that Daz's loader poses no risk of bricking your motherboard. To say both methods can not be detected i think is a little hasty. Whilst MS have not detected the loader yet does not mean they will not do so in the future no matter how unlikely it may seem right now. Also the BIOS mod could potentially be detected using hardware checks / bios dates etc. Its simply a matter of choice. For ease of use go with the loader, its simple to use and highly successful. The BIOS mod also successful but there are risks.

    As for UEFI BIOS, to my knowledge it isnt possible right now to insert a slic table due to digital signature. So if you have UEFI then go with the loader.
     
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  5. livinginswva

    livinginswva MDL Member

    Sep 5, 2010
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    i've used both sucessfully, with no hiccups. I think it's just up to the individual.
     
  6. YangerD

    YangerD MDL Novice

    Dec 24, 2010
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    How do you setup Windows to use MBR?
     
  7. Daz

    Daz MDL Developer / Admin
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    It's documented in the latest version of the loaders read me file :)
     
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  8. YangerD

    YangerD MDL Novice

    Dec 24, 2010
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    Thanks Daz, will check it out :)
     
  9. YangerD

    YangerD MDL Novice

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    @ Daz, what if I'm not installing Windows 7 from a DVD but a USB drive on a UEFI board?
     
  10. Superfly

    Superfly MDL Expert

    Jan 12, 2010
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    It's like the old Windows vs Linux debate - both have merits! It's a personal choice -mine being a mod 'cos it's more of a challenge - should M$ decide to target bios dates or machine models etc, the modders will rise to the challenge - can the loaders? Having said that big up to Daz for his dedication....:)
     
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  11. Daz

    Daz MDL Developer / Admin
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    #11 Daz, Aug 3, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2011
    @ YangerD
    As far as I know you'd select to boot the USB without UEFI instead.

    @ Whazzupsuperfly
    Some might risk flashing a BIOS on new hardware but some might not dare to try. As you said it's their personal choice :)

    We probably could patch stuff from the loader. In fact in the latest version we even have table spoofing :D
     
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  12. FreeStyler

    FreeStyler MDL Guru

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    Fooling BIOS dates isn't that difficult, especially with AMI bioses... nothing a hex editor & AMIBCP can't fix :D
     
  13. luky

    luky MDL Addicted

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    Daz Loader is best for me.
     
  14. 4access

    4access MDL Novice

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    Daz, is it possible (or perhaps, will it be possible?) to install and boot Windows 7 in UEFI mode and use your loader?
     
  15. Daz

    Daz MDL Developer / Admin
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    #15 Daz, Oct 16, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 20, 2017
    The loader can work on UEFI systems but only when the drive is setup to use MBR.

    Code:
    ##########################################################################
    #   4   -   UEFI motherboards
    ##########################################################################
    The loader doesn't work when the systems using GPT via UEFI. The workaround is to pre-format your hard drive so that it uses MBR instead.
    
    From your BIOS select to boot the Windows DVD without UEFI, go to the repair options, select command prompt and then enter this:
    
    diskpart
    list disk
    select disk 0
    clean
    convert mbr
    create partition primary
    select partition 1
    format fs=ntsf quick
    
    Boot the Windows DVD the same way you did the first time and then continue with the installation of Windows. Once complete you can install the loader.
     
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  16. Stannieman

    Stannieman MDL Guru

    Sep 4, 2009
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    What's table spoofing if I may ask?
     
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  17. Daz

    Daz MDL Developer / Admin
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    #17 Daz, Oct 16, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 20, 2017
    Lets say you add a SLIC and it has a different OEM ID or OEM Table ID, like this:
    Code:
    BIOS Information: 
      ACPI Table NameOEMID ValueOEMTableID Value
      APICDELL  M07    
      FACPDELL  M07    
      HPETDELL  M07    
      BOOTDELL  M07    
      MCFGDELL  M07    
      SLICDELL  WN09   
      SSDTPmRefCpuPm
    With the option enabled to patch OEM table ID's it will make it look like this:
    Code:
    BIOS Information: 
      ACPI Table NameOEMID ValueOEMTableID Value
      APICDELL  WN09   
      FACPDELL  WN09   
      HPETDELL  WN09   
      BOOTDELL  WN09   
      MCFGDELL  WN09   
      SLICDELL  WN09   
      SSDTPmRefCpuPm
    It's not enabled by default because some systems don't like other tables being adjusted. That's also why table sorting is disabled by default.
     
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  18. Computer Fixer

    Computer Fixer MDL Member

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    #18 Computer Fixer, Oct 17, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2011
    Each method has different target uses....

    If you brick a desktop MB while trying to flash with a modded BIOS, you can replace the motherboard for $50-$150. If you have a Willem programmer you may even be able to pull the EEPROM from the MB and re-flash it at zero cost.

    If you brick a laptop MB while trying to flash with a modded BIOS... you're possibly on the hook for a new laptop :(

    Desktops=BIOS Mod
    Laptops=Loader

    Oh yeah- third "no risk" option for Win7 Pro VL-Build: "Office 2010 Toolkit and EZ-Activator" http://forums.mydigitallife.net/threads/18746-Office-2010-Toolkit-and-EZ-Activator.
     
  19. Rasputin939

    Rasputin939 MDL Novice

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    #19 Rasputin939, Jun 2, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2012
    I've got an ASRock 990FX Extreme 4 Board, updated ti newest BIOS version, but when I open Boot Menu, I have no such thing as "boot without UEFI". What do I do wrong?

    Edit: well,I've just tried it out and worked like a charm. I think because I have formatted my HDD with an XP and it wrote a MBR before installing it into my new PC. Could that be?
     
  20. zevelorgani

    zevelorgani MDL Novice

    Jun 5, 2014
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    Does the BIOS mod method work with old BIOSes that do not support SLIC?
    (for example, I have an old Athlon machine with 2006 Phoenix BIOS)

    Thanks.