[DISCUSSION] Microsoft Edge - A new start, or IE 12 (and does it even matter)?

Discussion in 'Windows 10' started by Chromace, Sep 22, 2015.

  1. Chromace

    Chromace MDL Novice

    Aug 10, 2015
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    #1 Chromace, Sep 22, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2015
    Hiya forums! It's time for some philosophical musing. About what you may ask? Web browsers.

    With Windows 10 out, Microsoft has found it appropriate to distance themselves not only from their previous OS, but also their web browser, Internet Explorer. They did this in the form of creating another, redesigned-from-the-ground-up web browser, Microsoft Edge. And now, whenever this new web browser is brought up, the media can't help but talk about IE's 'death'. But is that really the case?

    Looking through the web, it becomes evident that Microsoft Edge is not really redesigned from scratch - its rendering engine (code which determines how the web browser displays the Internet), called EdgeHTML, has much in common with IE's rendering engine, Trident. For the most part, the largest difference between the two is that EdgeHTML has removed the legacy features which Trident supported. Hence, it would be more accurate to call Edge a 'fork' of IE, rather than a whole new web browser (this is what MS calls it). However, I believe Edge may be even less than that.

    I contend that Edge is simply a continuation of IE's work, a redesign of the browser akin to IE's transition from IE8 to IE9 (a paradigm shift in speed and compatibility - still behind other browsers, but a large change nonetheless). In fact, every time MS changed their versioning of their browser, a huge improvement in performance occurred (rather than the incremental and regular updates of other browsers). What differentiates these paradigm shifts with the one from IE 11 to MS Edge? Considering this, it mightn't be a stretch to call it IE 12 in disguise, re-branded with a new name and logo.

    It appears that at least behind the scenes, MS agrees somewhat.
    Browser Versions.png
    According to this browser versioning chart from 'caniuse.com', Microsoft Edge's versioning begins with '12'. Why not '1'? Because it seems, that Edge indeed continues where IE left off: From Internet Explorer 11 to Microsoft Edge 12. And that makes sense - the bulk of Edge did not suddenly materialise out of thin air after all.

    Of course, this little nit-pick means little to the regular person. For all intents and purposes, MS Edge might as well be a new web browser - the new design will be all that most people will see. Perhaps it is for the best (for Microsoft that is) if people don't consider this - IE's reputation, however deserved or undeserved, is tarnished. There is practically no other piece of software which has gained such casual derision, to the extent that users of the browser are ridiculed. If the layman knew that Edge simply built on the performance of IE 11 and then some, would they be as willing to try it out? Despite the improvements IE 9+ brought to the table, my gut says no.

    For the people who care about this sort of thing, I hope this has been a little bit insightful, or at least an interesting read (I try, I try). Sound off with replies. Care to agree? Disagree? Or something completely different? Anyways, thanks for reading!

    (Man, I wrote a freakin' news article. So fab. So fab. :))
     
  2. sevenacids

    sevenacids MDL Addicted

    Aug 17, 2012
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    Edge version 12/13 applies only to the rendering engine, not the app. Microsoft Edge is at version 20 already (RTM), which is weird enough, and no one can tell at which version they started development as they seem to increment the number quite more frequently and even for minor changes.

    Speaking of IE's dead - yes, it really is dead, because neither the Win32-based front-end, nor the Trident engine will be updated in the future. And Microsoft Edge is a complete new browser, except for the rendering engine.
     
  3. Mansome

    Mansome MDL Novice

    Mar 25, 2015
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    Edge is a great browser with alot of potential, however Microsoft made 2 major screw ups with it. The first is they still left the icon as the "e" instead of calling the browser something else that does not resemble IE. Project Spartan was well enough that they could have kept that. IE suffered from what I called browser poisoning due to all the malware toolbars that get installed. Where as now as a metro app it cant be poisoned in the same way which does help it but does not get rid of the stigma of the "e". The 2nd screw up was not having browser extensions at the start. No ad-blocking and such right at the beginning means people will use other browsers and will never look back. The only reason I use Waterfox instead of Edge is due to no extensions. Its going to take a hell of alot marketing or some awesome extensions to get people to look back at this browser now that they screwed up.
     
  4. Chromace

    Chromace MDL Novice

    Aug 10, 2015
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    #4 Chromace, Sep 22, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2015
    (OP)
    @sevenacids
    Fascinating! And thank-you for the reply.

    You bring up an interesting question - what part of a web browser is more important: the GUI, or the engine powering it? Personally, I think the latter (hence my idea that Edge really is just IE improved). Now excuse me while I go off a philosophical tangent.

    Ahem... a person, with effort and/or money, can change how they look. But would they still be the 'same' person as they were before their intensive exercise/plastic surgery? And what defines this similarity? Their personality? Could this possibly be applied to web browsers and their rendering engines? So many questions... :g:

    Basically, what I'm asserting is that IE lives on through Edge, due to much of its code powering it behind the scenes. It seems akin to Firefox rising from the ashes of Netscape Navigator - yes, NN is 'dead', but lives in spirit as the 'soul' of Firefox. IE seems to be doing the same thing for Edge. Just my 5 cents.

    Again, thanks for the reply! ^^
     
  5. Chromace

    Chromace MDL Novice

    Aug 10, 2015
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    @Mansome
    If it's just ad-blocking you're looking for in a web browser, you could try using your HOSTS file or PeerBlock (assuming you haven't tried them yet). They'd also have the benefit of freeing all your browsers of another extension.
     
  6. Rickkins

    Rickkins MDL Senior Member

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    I will never ever use edge, or any other metro app, so it is of little consequence to me.
     
  7. Garbellano

    Garbellano MDL Addicted

    Aug 13, 2012
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    Doesnt matters, everyone use Edge just to download Chorme or Firefox ;)
     
  8. Chromace

    Chromace MDL Novice

    Aug 10, 2015
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    @Garbellano
    :laie: (Although, don't forget all the other browsers out there, like Midori, Opera. I get the point though ^^)

    A very astute point. Most people here on this forum are quite tech-savvy, so it's of little consequence if Edge is really a new start or is based of IE. However, it makes me wonder...has Microsoft's effort in trying to redesign their web browser been in vain? What do you think? Should Edge just have been called IE 12, or is this sort of ambivalence towards IE and Edge merely relegated to the tech community?

    (Posted on Firefox ^_-)
     
  9. Chromace

    Chromace MDL Novice

    Aug 10, 2015
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    @Rickkins
    That's understandable - I have my DNS Client Service disabled (for HOSTS file ad-blocking), which modern apps rely on for some reason, so using them isn't really an option. I've heard that they also run in the background, to the ire of many people.

    So what do you think about Edge? Is it a brand new browser, or does IE live on?
     
  10. T-S

    T-S MDL Guru

    Dec 14, 2012
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    All three are meant for flocks

    Vivaldi and Opera 11/12 are good browsers, Otter Browser is taking shape nicely as well.
     
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  11. Garabet

    Garabet MDL Novice

    Feb 20, 2013
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    #12 Garabet, Sep 23, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2015
    Egde does not have any advantage over Firefox or Chrome to deal with HOSTS file. Edge is clearly inferior comparing with the Firefox&Chrome and i dont think any tech savvy users abandons these 2 browsers in favor of Edge.

    If Microsoft creates addons environment for Edge, then i may check it out again after a year `till it gets stable&improved with addons but before that, i will only use Edge to download Firefox and delete it`s shortcut afterwards
     
  12. xinso

    xinso MDL Guru

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    #13 xinso, Sep 23, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2015
    deleted for wrong place.
     
  13. Chromace

    Chromace MDL Novice

    Aug 10, 2015
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    #14 Chromace, Sep 23, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2015
    (OP)
    @Garabet
    If you don't want to use Microsoft Edge, that's totally fine! I just think it's important to help the people who do want to use the browser to get acclimated as comfortably as possible, and if it means providing ways to block ads by using things like the HOSTS file, so be it.

    The way the HOSTS file works is that it the system looks at it before requesting information on the web. It works by pointing different host-names to specific IP addresses. In this way, many ad-servers can be redirected to a null address, creating a system wide ad-blocker (on a practical note, that means it can block Skype ads). It also helps free up precious memory from your browser (dare I say it's more efficient than uBlock...?). Anyway, if you have a few spare minutes, look it up. I'm sure you'll be pleased with what you find. ^^
     
  14. loplop4

    loplop4 MDL Novice

    Jul 25, 2015
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    why its bad?
     
  15. Rickkins

    Rickkins MDL Senior Member

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    It's sole purpose is to send personal data back to microsoft.(imho)
     
  16. SOCRATE_MMXII

    SOCRATE_MMXII MDL Expert

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    @Chromace: how much is M$ paying you for advertisement? :D
     
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  17. Chromace

    Chromace MDL Novice

    Aug 10, 2015
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    @lolpop4
    Exactly the thing! Even if Microsoft Edge is IE 12 in disguise, it doesn't really matter to the end user - they'll just consider it a completely different browser. Of course, this is only good news for MS - their re-branding is meant to encourage more people to use their web browser. The thing is, no matter how they try to spin it, Edge wasn't 'rebuilt from the ground up' at all. It benefits from much of IE's code base, so not being completely new actually isn't a bad thing (in terms of manpower to be honest).

    However, the title was more of a question. Is it a bad thing for Edge to have ties with Internet Explorer? It really depends on what you think about IE. For those who actually enjoyed using the browser :)eek:), the fact that Edge uses much of IE's backend is consolation for them that their browser of choice is now deprecated and declared 'dead'. For the people who'd rather MS Edge to be a 'new start' though, they might not like this train of thought.

    Of course, for most people, they won't give a flying fadoodle. And that's smart (I mean, it's just a web browser. It displays web pages. First world problems right?). Where do I stand on Microsoft's new browser you might wonder? I just enjoy creating interesting discussion. And writing. :cool:
     
  18. Chromace

    Chromace MDL Novice

    Aug 10, 2015
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    #19 Chromace, Sep 23, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2015
    (OP)
    @SOCRATE_MMXII
    :weep:

    I'd hate to come off as a MS fanboy (although imagine being paid by MS to write - I'd finally be able to buy a non-crappy laptop). I simply wanted to create something interesting to discuss. That is to say: is Edge really what Microsoft claims - a whole new 'IE' killer, or just another iteration of their previous web browser (disguised of course)? I'm asserting it's nothing new.

    How does this come off as being sympathetic of MS? I endeavoured to be as unbiased as possible while writing the article. I have a great deal of respect for many people on this forum, and would be happy to rectify my mistakes. ^_-
     
  19. k3lt

    k3lt MDL Junior Member

    Nov 2, 2013
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    I dont see why would anyone use browser without addons / extensions support.