Do we suspect Win7 will use BIOS slic data?

Discussion in 'Windows 7' started by teknomedic, Jan 3, 2009.

  1. teknomedic

    teknomedic MDL Member

    May 5, 2007
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    I don't follow the news on betas or pre-releases much.. but I'm wondering if there's any news or a "general feeling" that Windows 7 either will or won't include some form of BIOS SLIC activation?
     
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  2. Gyrxiur

    Gyrxiur MDL Junior Member

    Feb 7, 2008
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    it will use it, you can install the vista's slic certicates, but cd-keys does not work.
     
  3. teknomedic

    teknomedic MDL Member

    May 5, 2007
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    Interesting... so Win7 will use the Vista info... but just require a new OEM key?

    I would have figued MS would have removed the method all together.... but I guess Win7 is built from Vista so maybe Win8 will remove it, lol.
     
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  4. HSChronic

    HSChronic MDL Expert

    Aug 25, 2007
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    since Vista and Win7 are fundamentally the same the activation methods will be the same. They might put in another check or 2 to try and determine if the SLIC is emulated or not, but we will probably not find out until RTM.
     
  5. Nil Einne

    Nil Einne MDL Novice

    Aug 12, 2007
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    I agee we won't know for sure until Windows 7 ships since Microsoft will be keeping that info close. But I also agree that SLIC will remain. IMHO despite the way some people laugh at MS, they aren't that stupid, they must have had some idea that people would use the SLIC method and that it was a major loophole in their activation system. But they're not going to suddenly remove it for precisely the reason it was there in the first place. Whatever their dodgy business practices they do have to listen to their major customers (i.e. big OEMs) and when the big OEMs demand a way to mass install OSes and have it fully working MS has no choice but to follow. The big OEMs demands are unlikely to change any time soon.

    BTW, this doesn't mean current SLIC bioses will work. Potentially/likely? there will be a change requiring new SLIC.
     
  6. HSChronic

    HSChronic MDL Expert

    Aug 25, 2007
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    The goal for MS was to be able to do 2 things with the SLIC thing. The first was get rid of 640-PID installation media, this way you do not have a perm activated solution unless you an OEM or using a MAK/KMS key, which not many have leaked... I know I am not going to leak mine, otherwise my servers would be screwed. The second was to give OEMs a few keys but make them put the cert in their BIOS much the way the SLP 1.0 tables work.

    Another thing MS wanted to do was cut down on people not getting OEM based installed when their computer gets reimaged. A lot of systems shipped with Pro (most Dell systems do), and when people bring those systems in to Geek Squad, or a computer store and the system gets reimaged a lot of times you will have stores using a VLK media with a pirated key, or you had some friend come over and install XP Pro. With Vista and 7 you don't have this, so people that are not tech savvy do not end up with a product they should not have.

    A lot of work has gone into WGA and by no means will MS slow down trying to root out pirated/non-legit copies of its OS. Yes, they make most of their money off SA and OEM licensing but protecting their investment is a big deal to them, but a lot of people find a challenge in trying to circumvent these methods, so it will always be a challenge on both parts.
     
  7. gollum

    gollum MDL Junior Member

    Jun 6, 2007
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    Hi Teknomedic, just for your information: I had my Vista Slic and Cert thing done to win7 both 32 bit and 64 bit and it all goes without a hitch - its all the same, the messages, the popups, the process of integrating the cert, the commands for slmgr.vbs. They will hardly rip out the whole licensing-system and put in something new at this stage of development. there wont be any major changes anymore.

    it is more than likely that we just have to wait for the first oem-keys to turn up and then we just switch from vista to 7. as easy as that :D
     
  8. SirSilentBob

    SirSilentBob MDL Senior Member

    Jun 5, 2009
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    Yep

    I agree with you fully on that. If MS makes it too difficult or time consuming or unreliable to be done in a mass-produced computer environment, then OEMs will not go for it. After all, all the OEMs care about is quantity, not quality, and your $$$.
     
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  9. jupier2k

    jupier2k MDL Member

    Jan 20, 2009
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    I am sure it will be the same as Vista just different OEM certificate /serial. And this also making Vista upgrade to win 7 easier for the masses.
     
  10. sadsac

    sadsac MDL Junior Member

    Dec 5, 2007
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    I think one indication that Windows 7 will use slic in the same manner as Vista is that recent bios updates for several brands of netbooks all of a sudden now contain slic (previously they only had slp for XP). Yet there is no indication that these models will ever ship with Vista, so the slic has probably been added for testing with Windows 7.
     
  11. FuzzyMaster

    FuzzyMaster MDL Member

    Jun 21, 2007
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    #11 FuzzyMaster, Jun 7, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: May 23, 2017
    A new cert means a new SLIC, and while MS may have to keep the same activation methodology/mechanism (due to 'get-to-market' time constraints) they will almost certainly have the OEMs use new SLICs (so new BIOS), certs, & PIDs. Rememeber that MS is marketing this as a new OS, so even with the a Vista kernel they will do whatever they can to deter piracy.

    btw, there is some additional discussion on this topic between Yen & crypto here;
    http://forums.mydigitallife.net/threads/5647?page=3
     
  12. FuzzyMaster

    FuzzyMaster MDL Member

    Jun 21, 2007
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    Until the RTM is available, this is all speculation. Your testing may show that the currently available versions of W7 work with the Vista mechanism, which will likely remain intact, BUT, MS will almost certainly require new PIDs, which will in turn require new certs and SLICs (so updated BIOSs). It wouldn't really make much sense for MS just to generate new OEM PIDs using the same certs & SLICs.

    Have a look at the the link I posted above for the discussion between Yen & crypto.
     
  13. jupier2k

    jupier2k MDL Member

    Jan 20, 2009
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    #13 jupier2k, Jun 7, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: May 23, 2017
    what will happen if one needs to dual boot Vista and Win 7 retail ?
     
  14. Domozilla

    Domozilla MDL Novice

    May 8, 2009
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    I assume such cases, one of the OS installs will need to be activated via a phone-call to Microsoft. Thought can't see how this could "legitimately" happen since if say Vista was preactivated-OEM, the Win7 install would be a retail-upgrade, which technically invalidates you old license, or if you have a preactivated-OEM Win7, you wouldn't have Vista, etc.

    But considering one has a PC make in the last few years (yes even laptops), I'm curious why one even needs to dual-boot anymore, what with the various virtualisation products from MS (VPC or HyperServer), VMWare and other solutions either closed or open sourced.

    Last time I dual booted was a good 8 years ago (Win2k & Linux).
     
  15. jupier2k

    jupier2k MDL Member

    Jan 20, 2009
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    Basically its the application issues, just some application run well in one OS as best of another !
     
  16. Domozilla

    Domozilla MDL Novice

    May 8, 2009
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    ... and as I said, that's what Windows Virtual PC's XP Mode (or some other virtualisation route) is for.
     
  17. shakeyplace

    shakeyplace MDL Addicted

    May 5, 2007
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    I am hoping, but we will have to wait and see... Since there were so many people wanting to downgrade Vista that (If we are lucky) and since I have heard it said that downgrade rights may be available..... Hopefully the SLIC, bios combination that works fow Win7 may turn out to be backward compatable with Vista, but don't expect the Vista combination to be forward compatable. We will of course have to wait and see
     
  18. ZaForD

    ZaForD MDL Expert

    Jan 26, 2008
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    The vast majority of PC's released even in the last month don't have any VT extensions, which all the major VM products now require.

    Meaning people (like me) have to turn to older versions of these programs to run VM's or Dual Boot. :(
     
  19. ZaForD

    ZaForD MDL Expert

    Jan 26, 2008
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    If you downgrade you get a new CD Key for the OS you've downgraded too, which is a basic OEM key. So it won't pre-activate, you'll have to do the normal on-line or phone activation.
    Im pretty that will be the same for Windows 7.
     
  20. shakeyplace

    shakeyplace MDL Addicted

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    #20 shakeyplace, Jun 7, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2009
    That is the way it has worked in the past, we have yet to see how MS will handle this, perhaps it will be allowed since so many demanded the Vista -> XP downgrade rights. I was thinking that this scenario is at least possible, MS could also perhaps work this in with the virtualization process in the future, ie, not just XP mode, could come preloaded with virtual Xp, or virtual Vista. Perhaps more of a down the road thing where OEM manufacturers could preload the virtual OS of their choosing...
    I don't know all that much, but that sort of thing at least sounds possible to me, no?
    It could be in their marketing plans and explain as well a good reason for MS to want to keep this licensing scheme, it would in theory sell well with the OEMs that were so hot about the Vista fiasco
    It would also allow manufacturere to sell the machines with older OSes preinstalled in the future, I am sure they complained lots about the Vista thing and probably demanded to have the option available with future releases
    ... or is this just being wishful?, It might require a new OEM key/cert for the Vista install, but should be possible to install either with the correct combination on a single SLIC