Do you think a wall on the border with Mexico can stop the immigrants?

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by Katzenfreund, Jan 26, 2017.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
?

Will the wall be effective against illegal immigrants?

  1. Yes, the wall will be largely effective

    15 vote(s)
    30.0%
  2. It will only have a small effect not worth the cost

    18 vote(s)
    36.0%
  3. No, it will be a monumental failure

    17 vote(s)
    34.0%
  1. Katzenfreund

    Katzenfreund MDL Expert

    Jul 15, 2016
    1,372
    803
    60
    It looks like Trump is going ahead with the construction of the long and expensive wall he promised on the border with Mexico. But people are resourceful and have technical means at their disposal. And doubts have been expressed as to its effectiveness.

    So do you think that such a wall will really stop, or at least considerably reduce, illegal immigrants coming over to the States?
     
  2. JFKI

    JFKI MDL Expert

    Oct 25, 2015
    1,098
    369
    60
    The wall probably will not, What he will do to the US economy short term will.

    Every project has it's downside in the beginning, then gets better as it moves along.
     
  3. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

    Jul 26, 2012
    3,529
    3,738
    120
    To answer that question, I think it's important to examine the wall that existed between east and west Germany.
    Did it serve its' purpose? Was there "slippage"? (i.e were people able to sneak across.)

    Those questions will answer this one.

    The real question to ask is "Will the USA be able to build it in the span of Trumps' term(s)"

    I sincerely feel that it will be abandoned when He leaves office.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  4. JFKI

    JFKI MDL Expert

    Oct 25, 2015
    1,098
    369
    60
    Are you sure about that MJ?
    That was a totally different world where the guards did not hesitate shooting first and asking questions later when anyone was trying to cross.
     
  5. dhjohns

    dhjohns MDL Guru

    Sep 5, 2013
    3,167
    1,592
    120
    The wall will only up the fees people need to pay to get across the border. That is all. It will be opposed at every turn by landowners on the border. Thankfully it is doomed.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  6. nodnar

    nodnar MDL Addicted

    Oct 15, 2011
    949
    609
    30
    just hop on a freight train and you`re through! policing freight trains will cost like hell. just as that wall will cost too..el trumpo is being ridiculously naive, and so are his supporters. :biggrin:
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  7. JFKI

    JFKI MDL Expert

    Oct 25, 2015
    1,098
    369
    60
    Until he gets rid of NAFTA. He is already doing away with the TPP.
     
  8. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

    Jul 26, 2012
    3,529
    3,738
    120
    @JFKI: Basically, you answered the question. IMHO, if the wall was built, it would eventually be torn down under protest.

    -IF- it was built.

    As was implied by you. What will make a tremendous difference is the strengthening of the process of enforcement.
    And that means that businesses need to be discouraged from profiteering on immigrants.

    We should prevent Immigrants from being used as cheap labor.

    We should have strict penalties for hiring illegals.

    All legal Immigrants should be allowed to work. If they do, they pay taxes like the rest of us. When they file to Immigrate, they would be issued a temporary Social Security Number which would be revoked upon
    denial of citizenship.

    They could use that SSAN to work. They could then pay taxes and would be entitled to the same wages and human rights protection that we afford our own citizens.

    We don't need a wall. We could easily fly drones over the borders and use Infra-red or visual cameras to monitor the border. If we spot something that appears suspicious, we could dispatch a message to local law enforcement in that area.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  9. ThomasMann

    ThomasMann MDL Addicted

    Dec 31, 2015
    840
    124
    30
    It is always a bit risky, when americans have an opinion about the rest of the world... so you might want to check your facts?

    Mexico will lose a lot of income because too many companies will move bach to the US, so, yes, in a way Mexico will pay. THat wa´s actually clear from the first time he talked about it. But would actually want to think about Trump says, right?

    PS This does not mean that Trump could not have quite a devastating impact on the ell-being of Americans. I an not endorsing Trump, I am simply (as always) that the criticism of his work so far has been utter nonsense. But this will change.
     
  10. ThomasMann

    ThomasMann MDL Addicted

    Dec 31, 2015
    840
    124
    30
    You should have let it be after the first sentence, the true one...
     
  11. ThomasMann

    ThomasMann MDL Addicted

    Dec 31, 2015
    840
    124
    30
    No, it does not cost... You can use heat scanners, IF you actually really want to do something about that way of coming through.
     
  12. alextheg

    alextheg Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 7, 2009
    1,776
    805
    60
    To be honest I think this proposed wall is more symbolic than anything else. Unless I'm mistaken isn't there already a physical border ?

    In my opinion it's like a misguided show of strength...... Look what I'm doing to prevent illegal immigration and drug running ! Ultimately he'll fail. Finances will be drained and people will get angry. People will still get through.

    But it will look like he tried......


    ** moving to serious discussion**
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  13. ThomasMann

    ThomasMann MDL Addicted

    Dec 31, 2015
    840
    124
    30


    "All legal Immigrants should be allowed to work." I assume that is meant to read ILLEGAL ? According to my info, legal migrants are allowed to work.... ;)
     
  14. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

    Jul 26, 2012
    3,529
    3,738
    120
    #14 Michaela Joy, Jan 26, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2017
    I'm referring to the outcome. Not the reasons for the wall. They're two separate things.

    What I'm saying is that a wall like that is a monstrosity which is not really necessary.

    Of course, that will depend on what industry and the purpose for remaining there. These will be decisions made based on cost, as is always done by business.
    If a natural resource costs more to import than the penalty of remaining offshore, the directors of that corporation will decide based on that, and, as always, take the the cheapest path.

    What He said and what gets implemented will more than likely be two different things. Both major parties will discuss it and make proposals. A deal will be struck that's a compromise.

    The question is: Who will benefit?

    I agree. Let's wait and see.

    And to answer your latest post which was made while I writing this one:

    NO. ILLEGAL immigrants will -NOT- be allowed to work. This is how companies can profiteer and take advantage of them.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  15. PointZero

    PointZero MDL Expert

    Oct 5, 2011
    1,061
    2,963
    60
    I live in Arizona, which is a state where a portion of the wall would be built. There are parts of the border right now that are separated with just barbed wire fence. Anybody can hop over it. In more populated areas, there's been a large wall that has existed for years.

    In Nogales, law enforcement regularly finds sophisticated tunnels built under the wall that goes from a house on the MX side to one on the US side. But those are used for smuggling drugs, not people, since the tunnels cost a lot to build and there's much greater profit margin in drugs.

    The large existing wall only extends so far and the crossing just goes on past where that wall or enhanced border patrolling exists. That's been pushing them in to trying to cross in some really inhospitable areas and so more and more are succumbing to exposure in the summer heat. I read stories of mothers or children dying out in there in the desert and it's heart-breaking.

    Having the wall extended would funnel them into smaller crossing areas which would make it easier for border patrol to locate them. Having a continuous border wall would definitely make it more difficult for many people to cross. But, of course, would not stop it completely. And there are portions of the border where there are mountains and I'm not sure how feasible it would be to have a continuous wall over some of those areas. But a longer wall would definitely help.

    Many of the crossers now are coming from Central America and making their way through Mexico to the US. Mexico treats many of these crossers on their southern border pretty harshly. But I'm sure it's not a picnic if detained by US border patrol either.

    I've visited Mexico numerous times from just crossing the border in Nogales/Tijuana for shopping/nightlife to vacationing in Rocky Point, Mazatlan and Cancun. It's a beautiful country and I like the people. It's a shame that their government can't do more to stimulate their economy so people wouldn't have to leave to find a decent paying job. But that's just the way it is right now.

    TL;DR: A longer wall would probably help cut down on crossings but would cost a lot of $ to complete.
     
  16. dhjohns

    dhjohns MDL Guru

    Sep 5, 2013
    3,167
    1,592
    120
    #16 dhjohns, Jan 26, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 20, 2017
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  17. Joe C

    Joe C MDL Guru

    Jan 12, 2012
    2,355
    1,260
    90
    I recently heard that Trump is going to start charging a 20% import tax on Mexico, in order to pay for the wall, I think Trump will violate the NAFTA agreement, and he could care less if he does
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  18. dhjohns

    dhjohns MDL Guru

    Sep 5, 2013
    3,167
    1,592
    120
    This means we all pay for the wall, and in the case of cars where parts get shipped back and forth across the border for fabrication and assembly, that would be multiple 20% on top of 20%. So, this will mean more money for what we buy now cheaply, less money for luxury items, and eating out, so this means people will get layed off which means less money, more money from government for food stamps. Whoops! There goes the economy. :(
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  19. dhjohns

    dhjohns MDL Guru

    Sep 5, 2013
    3,167
    1,592
    120
    If Trump is able to do all he wants unemployment could skyrocket from below 5% it is now, and balloon all the up to levels we have not seen since the Great Depression when 1 in 4 had no job.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  20. JFKI

    JFKI MDL Expert

    Oct 25, 2015
    1,098
    369
    60
    This is true short term.
    Long term it means more American jobs and the practical elimination of using cheap foreign labor for our products after the manufacturers realize that with these tarriffs in place it is cheaper for them to just build the products here.

    Same thing with all the Chineese and Japaneese products once the TPP is history.

    I don't know about you but I am looking into investing in Neodymium, both mining and production (refining).
    Every laser mouse, CD and DVD player, and hard drive has this element in small quantities....
    Once it becomes clear that we can build these here cheaper than we can import them that price will skyrocket.
    Also once the production of electric cars takes off in the US there will be an unbelieveable amount consumed.