Getting around 137 GB issue

Discussion in 'Windows XP / Older OS' started by vistadude, May 27, 2009.

  1. vistadude

    vistadude MDL Member

    Oct 7, 2008
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    I have an older xp laptop (dell inspiron 6000) with an 80 gb hard drive that's full. I bought a 320 gb pata hard drive to replace it, knowing there's going to be a 137 gb partition issue. Windows should be fine with it, as I have rollup update 2 installed, but the BIOS won't like the big drive and there's no update available. I've googled around and seen people have gotten around the issue for 250 gb drives but no one has said how they do it.

    Does this sound like a decent plan of action? --> Put the 320 gb laptop drive in a usb case and plug it into a vista desktop, use vista to partition it into three 100 gb partitions. Then connect it to the laptop via usb, and use norton ghost to copy the old drive drive over, then replace the old disk with the new one. Will I be able to see all 3 partitions in xp?

    Thanks.
     
  2. 2centsworth

    2centsworth MDL Senior Member

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    The only way around a BIOS that's not able to address the entire drive, and you're sure there is no update (and autodetect is on), you can use a drive manager (DDO) . It's software that translates your hard drives parameters to ones a BIOS with a 137GB limit can understand and address the entire drive.

    This software installs onto the boot sector, if that software is damaged or corrupted you cannot boot your drive.

    Often called dynamic drive overlay (DDO), some disc mfg. still offer it as a download. Others like Seagate try to help you find a BIOS update or new controller and no longer offer DDO's (cause when they go bad, it really sucks).

    Who makes your laptop drive? See if it came with a disc.
     
  3. vistadude

    vistadude MDL Member

    Oct 7, 2008
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    The drive is made by western digital and they do make the tool to trick the bios. However, I'm not sure how to do this while the disk is initially external and if ghost will be an option. Ghost is absolutley necessary for this computer as much of the software cannot be reinstalled.

    Thanks.
     
  4. sebus

    sebus MDL Guru

    Jul 23, 2008
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    One way to know is to .... try it & see what happens
    Remove internal drive (so it is untouched & safe), put new big one in, install DDO, see what happens.
    The make the original internal drive as external USB, boot with VistaPE/WinPE CD (or even Vista/Win7 DVD, run ghost32, copy the small original now external USB to new big now internal drive, reboot, done)

    This way your original drive is never in any danger of being overwritten & it perfectly safe

    sebus
     
  5. HMonk

    HMonk MDL Addicted

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  6. 2centsworth

    2centsworth MDL Senior Member

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    erase the drive, no partitions etc. Physically install it in the laptop, then boot from the WD tools (either floppy or CD....lifeguard tools i think they're called) and install the DDO. Then plug in your external drive with the restore image, boot from the bootable Ghost cd and restore....assuming Ghost works with DDO.

    Inspiron 6000 has a well documented 120GB barrier in their BIOS.

    The harddrive needs to be installed on the primary drive controller of the laptop to be set up properly. Then DDO installed, then the OS restored last of all.

    I've not used DDO since the days of MFM drives, damn I'm old.
     
  7. vistadude

    vistadude MDL Member

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    #7 vistadude, May 28, 2009
    Last edited: May 28, 2009
    (OP)
    Okay, I tried the DDO, then did a direct drive copy using ghost, but when i put the new hard disk in and booted, it said corrupt or missing system file. Please reinstall the system file.

    I guess i can try a ghost to an additional external, then boot with the ghost copy with the ghost cd :(

    Also pins on both drives are bent :(
     
  8. vistadude

    vistadude MDL Member

    Oct 7, 2008
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    Update:

    I tried the other method, first make a new ghost image to a 3rd external disk, then use the ddo on the new disk, then use the ghost cd to restore the image. The two options i checked were make this the startup disk and copy the master boot record and something on the hard drive, like serial number. After running the ghost utility and restarting, I saw the xp logo but immediately got a blue screen. Any ideas what to do?

    Thanks.
     
  9. sebus

    sebus MDL Guru

    Jul 23, 2008
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    If you do not know any better, then repair WinXP installation (Google for how if you need)

    sebus
     
  10. vistadude

    vistadude MDL Member

    Oct 7, 2008
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    os2fan2: The ghost image already has rollup update 2. Service pack 1 and 2 are older. Also, I cannot reinstall windows because much of the software can't be reinstalled.

    sebus: repair is really not a great option, it's not windows that is messed up, it's something in the boot loader. It's more a problem of me not being able to figure out how to use ghost and the instruction manual doesn't give any help for the master boot record and hard disk serial number.
     
  11. HMonk

    HMonk MDL Addicted

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    Why Ghost

    If you care to pursue the matter . . .

    The Data Lifeguard Tools automatically detects and will install DDO (EZ-BIOS). The Tools will also clone your existing OS to the new HDD. The process is straight forward, not complicated, essentially automatic, and tried.

    1. What is it that compels your use of Ghost?
    2. You also say you cannot reinstall Windows "because much of the software cannot be reinstalled." What are you talking about?
    3. In response to Sebus, you also say that "repair is really not a great option, it's not windows that is messed up." Of course Windows is "messed up" - that's why you are having boot issues and/or EZ-BIOS fails. Have you tried the SECOND Windows repair option?
    4. You can repair the MBR via the Recovery Console. Have you tried that?

    All of this commands the conclusion that your viable options have been compromised by a bastardized OS which you are trying to preserve - which explains the woefully tortuous and unsuccessful course on which you have embarked.

    Alternatively stated, I unable to apprehend why, in your situation, the use of tried and true means to accomplish an uncomplicated end is contraindicated.

    Monk
     
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  12. 2centsworth

    2centsworth MDL Senior Member

    Feb 12, 2008
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    I am unfamiliar with Ghost and how it supports addressing storage. You need to verify that Ghost supports DDO addressed drives.

    You do realize you cannot copy an image from one computer to another with different hardware, without some driver issues (often severe issues)...ie: if you had an intel motherboard with RAID and raid drivers, and try to ghost that and run it on another computer without a RAID array or a different model RAID controller than your original motherboard had, you would at the least get a BSOD, because the Intel RAID driver only works with the controller in your original motherboard.....a common one I see are mixed AHCI drivers and NON-AHCI controllers when migrating from one PC to a new one with different hardware.
     
  13. sebus

    sebus MDL Guru

    Jul 23, 2008
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    vistadude, you need to learn, learn & learn

    And if you insist on Ghost then use Ghost32 (not the DOS ghost.exe version)
    And then do WinXP second repair

    And then learn & learn again.

    And then ask questions if still does not work

    sebus
     
  14. HMonk

    HMonk MDL Addicted

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  15. 2centsworth

    2centsworth MDL Senior Member

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    #16 2centsworth, May 28, 2009
    Last edited: May 28, 2009
    Lol, i confused this thread with another in another forum, and so erase this post....DOH!...@ Super Mod HMonk, I have used acronis for years, I started using Powerquest drive image back in the 90's when it cost a fortune, and was used mostly in enterprise. Then Symantec bought Drive Image after 7.xxx came out...but i swear by Acronis imaging tools, we use them on our enterprise server and all our workstations for automated imaging reliably for years now.


    Avistadude, You've got a catch 22 here, you need the DDO on the drive before you install the OS there. Can't copy over an Image and it's MBR, or you will erase the DDO. Have to make a choice.
     
  16. HMonk

    HMonk MDL Addicted

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    Clarification

    @Vistadude . . . .

    I was, in effect, chatting with 2centsworth regarding Universal Restore as it applies to bare metal OS migration. 2centsworth is absolutely correct to point out that the DDO MUST be installed on the HDD - which a subsequent image restore would overwrite. Hope I did not confuse the issue.

    One thing you could try that, in theory, sounds good (I've never tried it): install the DDO on your existing HDD/OS partition, perform an image backup of that, then restore it to the new HDD (with Acronis, e.g., you have the option of restoring the partition image, the MBR, or both).

    Monk
     
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  17. vistadude

    vistadude MDL Member

    Oct 7, 2008
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    Thanks for you replies. I'll try here to answer everything I can.


    @ Hmonk Post #12.


    I did use the data lifeguard tools to install DDO twice. I think that part worked fine. I partitioned 3 drives with no problems.


    1. The reason I use ghost is this. When I bought the laptop 4 years ago, it seemed slow from day 1 with only the OS and drivers installed, no bloatware. I ran a diagnostic and found the hard disk had bad sectors. I called dell and they shipped me a new hard disk. This would be a hitachi 80 gb drive replacing a western digital 80 gb. I had the windows media center disc and since the computer was only a few days old, i had no trouble reinstalling a clean os, but I figured imaging would be faster (and it was, only took 2 hours total). I went out and bought ghost, and it worked, miraculously on the first try. I wish I could remember how I used the program back exactly to every parameter. I also do weekly incremental backups with ghost. I'm not using those at the moment, but hey, it's a good backup of a backup plan.

    2. I can't reinstall all the software because some of the software is scientific and have tricky licenses. Only the developer will install the software and license for me (he does not give cd's in order to protect his software). I only meet this guy once every 2 years if I'm lucky and he's too busy to install software anyways. It's the sort of software that doesn't have a price tag but is worth 10 grand easily. Also the networking relies on the administrator to connect my pc and all the licenses to the server. He too is busy and I will be on a 2 month wait list to get it working. So windows reinstall is not an option.

    3. Okay, I havn't tried repair yet. I figure since some patches newer than update rollup 2 won't allow me to use the original disc. I'll have to try but I've had issues with this in the past. The media center disc is a dual layer dvd, so it's harder to slipstream, and I'm not even sure if it's possible to slipstream individual patches. Some patches are optional and not available with Sp3.

    4. For recovery console, i tried the chkdisk command and it failed. I'll have to search how to repair the mbr. I wonder if I should even be copying the mbr in the first place with ghost. Maybe that's the problem.


    @ Sebus Post #14

    I thought ghost32 was the windows version? That's what i'm using to create the image, and ghost dos version to bring the image to the new drive. This worked 4 years ago, shouldn't it work now if DDO is setup?



    @ 2centsworth #16.

    Ahh okay, this makes sense now :), as I was trying to do both in the last 2 tries. Probably I should install DDO, and then copy the image over without DDO. If I lose the other space after 137, oh well, it's better than 80 gb :)


    @ HMonk #17

    As far as I could tell, I could only install DDO if entire drive is formatted. Worse yet, western digital data lifeguard only works for WD drives. I don't know what I can do with this hitachi drive. I'm gone for the weekend, but I'll try DDO + image without MBR. If that doesn't work I"ll try image w/ MBR and no DDO. Okay, I only have a few chances before the pin bend and break permanently :)


    Thanks guys.
     
  18. sebus

    sebus MDL Guru

    Jul 23, 2008
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    Oh for God sake, just make an image once (with whatever you want, ghost-acronis-snapshot.exe or anything else & you never have to touch the original drive again.

    DDO the new drive, install ANY Windows XP on it, boot with VistaPE CD, delete Windows, Document and Settings, Program files, mount/open the image created earlier, copy these 3 folders back, it will all work.

    But of course you need to know what you are doing, but after all it is only Windows....

    sebus
     
  19. HMonk

    HMonk MDL Addicted

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    Thanks

    Thanks for the details, Vistadude: it helps me, at least, narrow down the possibilities.

    FYI: MBR repair is one of the Recovery Console options with which you are presented.

    Monk
     
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