How big a chance does this have...?!?

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by gorski, Dec 6, 2012.

  1. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
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    #1 gorski, Dec 6, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 20, 2017


    Seriously... Just how irrational are we, generally speaking...?!? And how big a chance do we have of turning a page... at least on this issue?!?

    What do you think, especially if you are like one of those adults in the video?!?

    Causing addiction BY DESIGN!!!

    IMPACT BOOSTING by "ammonia chemistry"!!!

    Many chemicals are in cigarettes precisely because they cause or boost addiction!!!

    [video]http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504803_162-20094836-10391709.html[/video]

    Long live perjury, for profit's sake!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Education. Is this our only option?

    Something like this:

    http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hc-ps/tobac-...tenant/road-voie/addictive-dependance-eng.php
     
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  2. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    This is a scourge of Modernity - as a potent, rather vivid example of completely irrational approach to one's "needs" ("" for there are false needs, too!)...

    And yet - no takers... Hmmm....
     
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  3. R29k

    R29k MDL GLaDOS

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    #3 R29k, Dec 19, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2012
    If the people want poison and they are willing to pay for it then I say give it to them, we have 6.5 Billion and many more where that came from.
     
  4. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    So, if - for instance - AIDS infected people want to spread it (and the smoking s**t is affecting us in a variety of ways, esp. our kids, all the way to our Public Health Service resources, where their addiction costs us all a great deal) - you'd let them do it?

    What about heroin addicts who can not fund their addiction legally, so they start a new, "young burglar" career, on the side, then at some point they start using and driving and who knows what else...?!?

    What about some sociopathic scientists who want to clone themselves but need public resources and unsuspecting victims for "biological tools and material" - affecting us, too...

    In other words, we do affect each other, eugenics in disguise or not... So, if you want to do that, why not something a bit more difficult but also more humane?!?

    Can you see how what you are saying can sound a bit callous, can't you? No offence intended!!!

    It sounds as if you haven't checked your moral centre/compassion and interests of others...

    Especially non-smokers... What with their interests and non-alienated Humans, like me?!?
     
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  5. R29k

    R29k MDL GLaDOS

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    #5 R29k, Dec 19, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2012
    Completely different from marketing a product.
    If I go to a supermarket and I pick up a package of seasoning that I know is good, but when I look at the label it says monosodium glutamate and I say
    "to hell with that taste matters more". Then I go home and cook with it and have a nice heart attack, whose fault is it ?
    I know what I am saying is callous and it was intended to be. Humans have degraded to a point where they are like Kirby, they suck up everything hook line and sinker.
    Does the world need a babysitter ? Do we really need someone to tell 25 year olds that eating at McDonalds every day is bad for you and you can die.
    Or that smoking is bad and you can die. Just let them die, as the saying goes "The only cure for stupidity is death".

    Oh I have some ideas to solve your problems.
    Ban cigarettes completely, but as we know that ain't going to go down well, just look at the cannabis thread. So another option is
    create smoking zones as we have now make it a crime to endanger others with your smoke and put a huge fine on it even jail time. And let them smoke themselves to death if they
    want to. Can do that for cannabis and other recreational drugs but have them sign a non endemity document so that when they die they cannot sue anyone for anything.
    Drunk driving, if you are caught you cannot drive again EVER in that country non negotiable !
    Have junk food carry warning labels just like cigarettes.
    Anyone caught doing illegal experiments of any sort that endangers lives should receive a minimum of 25 years in jail without possibility of parole.
    Civilians should not be allowed in any case to carry guns of any sort. Guns should be restricted to law enforcement. Penalty for this should be 10 years jail without parole.
    Child molesters, rapists and murderers convicted beyond a shadow of doubt should be executed immediately.
     
  6. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    #6 gorski, Dec 20, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2012
    (OP)
    There is such a thing as gradual change, too... It may not be to our liking, in terms of speed, scope etc. but it is happening:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-20783263 - let me tell you, the industry is really unhappy... thank fook!!! :D

    Then, there are many campaigns, law-suits and whatnot - help to quit galore, where educating is the key!!!

    Habermas, via System Theory, can help understanding how this is possible. I.e. even large systems, not just individuals, can learn. We can keep improving subsystems, even if it isn't fast enough to help every individual immediately - but it is possible, it is happening, at least in semi-decent states...

    And even Humanity as such, on the whole, can go and indeed is going down that route, sometimes going backwards, for a while, of course...

    And one must warn, naturally, that in all thing Human, there are no guarantees! No 100% prediction. No absolutes!

    Not for the faint-hearted, of course... Uncertainty is the name of the game Humanity plays...

    But the core of it all is in "how we dance the dance", in the effort itself!

    This is what defines us, as Humans...

    Ergo, eradicating it is possible!

    Just "slow" doesn't mean....

    You're getting me... ;)

    :)

    P.S. There is no such thing as "beyond shadow of doubt", at least in most cases, where there are no "many eye-witnesses" and audio-visual evidence, etc. etc. We have seen many such cases where miscarriages of justice were horrible, ergo...
     
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  7. R29k

    R29k MDL GLaDOS

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    There is enough educating being done, you can't try to play God and save everyone.
    Take for example smoking, there have been enough tests, warnings and cases related to smoking deaths.
    I personally don't see the point in saying more, when you buy the cigarette on the box has a warning.
    Just like if you pick up a bottle of poison it has a warning. If you can't heed the warning then too bad
    deal with the consequences.
    Also in the "beyond a shadow of doubt issue" that is to eliminate the miscarriages of injustice.
    If people see you committing the act then when you are sentenced it would be a waste of prison space to keep you.
     
  8. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    There is never "enough educating". Quite the opposite!

    Especially when you go East, where most smokers live (especially the very young ones, thanx be to the tobacco industry's targeting them, in a most sinister, sociopathic manner!!!!). It seems to me you could be educated about (some of) the world you live in, globally speaking... No offence, but if you come East (where I am from, in a manner of speaking), you will see stuff that will blow this assumption of yours away!

    But I bet you that there is TOO LITTLE EDUCATION, especially the very good kind, universal education on the issues in the West, too!

    And even if there is a "sort of good level", this does not mean by any stretch of imagination that all, especially the lower classes are getting anywhere near a good, quality education they ought to get... Maybe middle and upper classes but all?!? That much we know for sure...
     
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  9. R29k

    R29k MDL GLaDOS

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    I know older people who insist on smoking, knowing full well that it will kill them.
    How are you going to educate such people when their whole mindset is to do what
    they want irrelevant of the consequences ? My wife's grandfather is 74 and he has been warned repeatedly
    by his doctor not to smoke, but his mindset is that he is over 70 so he lived his life so what the hell
    just enjoy life. The younger ones you may try to change and you may succeed but the change has to come from the person.
    Sitting down preaching change to people who don't want to change is a futile job. Mostly people learn through experience, like the child wanting to touch the flame.
    The dad dying from lung cancer and his young son looking on is the best teaching you can have. You win some you lose some that's life.
     
  10. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    Yours is stuck in the past (old habits, stuck in their ways, irrational addicts) argument - mine is (mostly) addressing the future (kids)... ;)
     
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  11. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    Since we're talking education: http://www.ash.org.uk/

    Now, compare lives lost or ruined to the numbers employed by these a*seholes: http://www.the-tma.org.uk/

    In Capitalism, anyone can take their capital and change what they are doing, over night, literally - and it happens every day - if profits are higher elsewhere, we switch... Why not make it seriously unprofitable? Because society at large does not profit from those products - quite the opposite!!!

    http://www.smokingstinks-aaco.org/horrors.htm

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0427944/
     
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  12. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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