Human rights and survival

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by case-sensitive, Jun 12, 2022.

  1. case-sensitive

    case-sensitive MDL Expert

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    We live in a world with standards . With human rights , morals and ethics that are considered to be undenyable .

    Things like equal rights , protection against discrimination , protection by laws , acsess to courts , a health system , personal rights , personal freedom , freedom of opinion ,freedom of speech , freedom of movement , no torture , no death sentance ........ as examples .

    Now we ' live ' in a dieing biosphere and the only way out .......... IF there is one .......... is to get rid of 5 - 6 billion people VERY FAST .

    Thats not possible with the standards , morals and ethics , laws and rights that we have now .

    = We have a choice between the rights we have now ........... and all of us die :) ................ or changing ( ignoring ? ) those rights ............ makeing harder laws and punishments . Maybe like in china with a sozial points system where people that break laws are executed .

    = Survival of the fitest .

    = Sacreficeing some personal rights so that humanity can survive .

    Are those rights undenyable ? Especialy in situations like we're in now with a dieing biosphere ?

    Can we weigh personal human rights against human society surviveing ?

    Wich comes first ? Human rights for all or survival for a few ? The survival of humanity ?

    Can rights change ?

    Can any life be more worth than another life ?



    We have examples ............ when a persons arm has gangreen / sepsis we cut it off ........ so that the person can survive . When we have wars the warriors get more food than the rest . Prisoners have less rights than people that dont commit crimes .
     
  2. ancestor(v)

    ancestor(v) Admin
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    One simple problem: who decides who gets to survive and who has to die? For extreme perspectives, radical thinking people (white supremacists or religious fanatics and the like; all ignorant idiots in different colours) would just have their kind survive and everyone else isn't worthy.

    We're all in this together - either we find a way into the future together or many lives will be lost, either because of fighting or because we can't help each other. You can ignore problems for a while, but when it comes to survival, people go to extreme lengths (like migrating around half the globe).
     
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  3. case-sensitive

    case-sensitive MDL Expert

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    ancestor(v) Not at you at subject

    Thank you for posting ......... and also for not deleteing this thread . Its the third one i made on exactly the same problem from different directions .......... and one of them got deleted .

    You understood what i wrote ........... but at the same time you didnt :)

    You describe the situation that we're in ........... but thats it ........... a planet full of people who know that the boat's sinking , know that something has to be done .......... otherwise billions of people will die .......... and how it looks now if we carry on with the party THE WHOLE OF HUMANITY will die ........... The biosphere will be at least castrated for tens / hundreds of thousands of years .......... and we know what we have to do but noone is doing it = WE are actively murdering future generationns NOW .

    Thats the dilema ......... if we do something now only a few billion people will die ......... if we continue the party even more billions will die ........ maybe the whole of inhumanity ...... and all of the biosphere . The earth will be like mars .

    I tryed to put it in philosophical terms so that the ' philosophers ' here can talk about it .......... sensibly and not like in yens corona conspiracy theory thread .

    I see the thread as being very sucsessfull ......... because the ' philosophers ' here dont take part . And dont discuss the subject .

    Wich proves that i'm right .

    Knowing what to do ......... deciding what to do ....... and doing it is hard ......... but the start of any solution is .......... talking about it openly in public ......... talking about the disisions that need to be made ........ the effects of doing them or not doing them ....... and the philosophy , morals and ethics about the position that we're in ....... and takeing or not takeing those choices and decisions ....... and it isnt happening .

    The titanic sinks and the band keeps playing .
     
  4. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    There are various elements that should get into the NECESSARY discussion, as I already wrote here...

    0) Eugenics out!!! No "ifs" and no "buts"!!! Any kind of "supremacy" simply must be banned, as it is counter-productive!!!

    1) Seriously planned and expertly executed worldwide education (rather than by force of law and state agencies) - including and especially accented sexual education in schools, family planning in general etc.

    2) Liberation/empowerment/economic independence of girls/women = women becoming Subjects (rather than objects and ownership of men or their families).

    3) New and emerging technologies (creating meat/protein out of bacteria, water and "thin air", kinda literally, i.e. CO2, plus some other bits and pieces, making it much cheaper to produce protein), which would reduce the need for arable land and vast tracts of grazing areas and make it possible to significantly reduce the need for domesticated animals/cattle and to finally re-forest the world, after we devastated it in that respect since the invention of agriculture (= ecocide!!!)...

    4) Removal of man-made (oestrogen-like compounds) toxins from the environment - because they affect not only Human life but Life as such, via infertility [sperm deformation, reduced motility, hermaphroditism etc.] and health generally [cancers are proliferating when dipped in that toxic soup in a living organism]!!!

    5) Multipolar world that is just emerging, changing the dynamics of the geo-politics, which will demand working together on reducing the numbers of Humanity in a co-ordinated, enlightened, informed, non-coercive, deffo non-violent, consensual manner - but on equal footing!!!

    6) The debate, though, would need a liberal-democratic framework of open, frank, informed and free debate... Everywhere! Hard to get, I know but necessary, to my mind!

    7) Essential for the success of the story would be - superficially seen as a counter-intuitive move - abolishing of the military world-wide! Those ample and essential resources must be diverted into creation, away from destruction, abolishing poverty, disease and hunger, as well as ignorance and blind obedience to irrational authorities alike...

    Otherwise, I see a possible basis for a nasty conflict, on a global scale... To extermination, even...

    But tell me: how many rich & powerful people can think strategically?!?
     
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  5. zen45

    zen45 MDL Addicted

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    no torture , no death sentence , human rights hmmm really ? at what point do you take a human life ? if a man rapes children and gets caught and gets life in prison with out parole and murders another inmate what then ? after that he kills a guard what then , if he cant be executed then he cant be punished at that point he can kill anyone for there is no punishment ! do you lock him in a cell and never let him out of that cell isn't that torture ? compassion is wonderful if a man steals food for his starving family do you punish him or help him to get out of that situation so he doesnt have to do that again some decisions need to be made carefully about punishment but they do have to be made !
     
  6. case-sensitive

    case-sensitive MDL Expert

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    Gorski ....... thank you for that . Thats the type of post i always wanted to see from you :)

    I'll have to read both post a few times to digest it all and think about consequences .

    It looks to me like your talking about a rational form of international socialism , a social democracy , wich is NOT communism . And i agree with that .

    I think that we have to do something about the causes ......... that means looking for the responsible people and the culpretes and stopping them ....... otherwise we just keep going round and round in circles ....... as now with them milking us all the way .

    That means ending capitalism ......... and ending ' faschism ' ( = the system we have now ) and introduce democracy = Rule by the people for the people in the interests of the people . BUT ....... simply said that would mean that all the politicians and the rich in the world would have to pay their debts and get propper jobs ......... wich will never happen...........unless they're force to .

    Stop the hollocaust against animals . For me that means stop eating and abuseing animals . For me this planet with its animal farms , zoos , pet shops , animal breeding for profit is animal dachau .

    There was just a program on TV where they talked about producing meat in labs with cell cultures produced from stem cells ......... wich apeared to be pheasable in massive quantitys . That would help very much . BUT thats not for me . I'm hard core :) For me vegan meat substitutes and the people that eat them are EVIL . I dont see a difference between eating meat and eating pretend meat .

    A consequent aproach to population control . There are far to many people on the planet and we have to stop breeding so many people . How do we stop people breeding ? I dont like saying it but its a fact ....... a problem with that is that IF we free the working classes ......... they get pissed , cause trouble and breed like rats ........ against their own interests .......... because they / we foot folk have been bred stupid for thousands of years . The system we have produces people that are ingnorant and mentaly castrated . The only way out of that is proper education for everyone ........ but that takes time .......... maybe a generation or more .

    Problem is that the laws and courts , for instance in little britain , only function is to keep the working classes down and the rich and greedy in power .

    Those things arent hard to do ........ the population shows that they're prepared to endure hardships for justice ........ when very many people said f**k putin i'll sit in the cold to end his empire building / empirialism , crimes against humanity and war crimes .

    We see that now for example with plastic and waste ........ we're forced to sort our rubish ....... and can get punished if we dont ......... wich is insane . We should be stoping people producing the unneeded throw away packaging . And stop s**t like stretch jeans that get thrown away after the third wash .

    Another thing is green atomic energy . Its the only way that we know at the moment to diminissh the piles of nuclear waste ....... and the problems asociated with it are not caused by uranium or the power stations . They are a direct consequence of capitalism and government cutting corners for money . For instance ...... f**k you shima ....... badly built and in the wrong place ....... allowed by government in the interests of capitalism .

    We HAVE to have religeous education ....... and not as now kids are indoctrinated in schools with god s**t ........ wich is realy not religeon its politics ....... and one of the biggest causes of crime in the world .

    A personal favorite of mine is unillegalise all drugs ........ that would mean that we could replace lots of plastic with hemp fibers . And ....... i say ...... if people were taught how to use MDMA and LSD ........ and while on their trips they thought about the problem ........ the problem would be at least ' half way ' solved .

    The main thing that we can do is to talk about it ........ openly and honestly ....... across the net ........ with everyone and all the cards on the table . I've always hoped that the internet would help humanity get together and democratise the world .


    For me the only thing between humanity and paradise is ........... poly-trickers and their capitalist masters . BUT ....... the bastards have the guns ...... and we're defenseless .

    .................................
    > at what point do you take a human life ?

    NEVER .

    > at what point do you take a animal life ?

    NEVER .

    @ Crime

    I think that we should treat ALL people equaly , with manners and respect . And NOT punish people ...... instead we should help them to resocialise , teach them the benefits of not being criminal , how to live without stealing , lieing , cheeting and / or f**king kids ........ = Because its in their own interests . The ones that cant / wont be helped should be humanely treated , and given the possibility for psychelogical , psychiatric and medical help ........ behind bars .

    That would also mean getting rid of the ignorance , inequality and poverty that is realy the foundation / reason for very much crime .

    Yes prison is torture and a crime against humanity ....... and prisons are criminal universitys wich mostly produce people that have a grudge against society = Cause more crime .
     
  7. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    #7 gorski, Jun 24, 2022
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    Not "population control" but "family planning" - via education and information, empowerment of women and so on...

    We do not need "superiority complex" based laws re. what we should/could eat! That, broadly speaking, is the basis for any kind of nasty totalitarian society/governance! These are still *complexes*, even though one *imagines* one is somehow *superior* or more *saintly* if one does ABC, as opposed to somebody else who does DEF. That leads to conflict and violence, ultimately. "Grow up!!!" is my message to such lot! Agriculture is ecocide! It destroys everything in its path, down to the level of soil bacteria. Every single species that used to live on such land is exterminated! So, get off that *high horse* and patting yourselves on the back! That's pure BS! We need a proper, sober, critical discussion of all aspects of being alive and being a part of the chain of life on this planet. The fact we are omnivores and some of us are eating meat/fish/poultry is neither here nor there. If I am OK with you eating whatever you want who are you to dictate to me what I shall eat?!? Especially given I am against caged, cruel, nasty farming, thoughtless, stressful slaughter, long and nasty transportation of animals, hormone treatment of animals and any kind of mistreatment, bad animal husbandry etc. etc. We must find a way to live sustainably and mutually recognise each other, the Nature and - our bodies, too (=bodily needs as "natural" and therefore "normal" and not force our sometimes dogmatic spirit over our bodily needs!)!

    I repeat: the least terrible of all the options we have right now is - liberal democratic framework with social-democratic governance, which could achieve all this in a peaceful, rational manner! I.e. mutual recognition, and eventually even mutual respect! So, democratic framework which is "ennobled" by the institutions and processes of "protection of minorities" - not a totalising tyranny of the majority!

    We do not need religious education. Even if you are a conservative - there is a much better alternative!

    Any major civilisation/culture you study comes up with universalisable laws, in order to live in an organised, civilised, Human society! For instance:

    Thou shalt not kill!

    Thou shalt not bear false witness!

    Thou shalt not steal your neighbour's wife, land, slaves etc. etc. etc
    .
    These ancient sets of "commandments" around the world are universally present, even in *custom based* (nothing to do with *religion*) sets of commands!

    And today, we certainly do not need superstition as the basis of either our society in general or education in particular, given all the advances we have in a liberal democratic sense or science in general!

    Hemp production (much more productive than tree production for paper etc. which we need for packaging etc.), to pick on another point or two, does not mean we should all get as high as a kite, especially not on LSD and other chemical cr@p which literally does kill the little grey cells, the most precious part of us, the part that makes us who we are!!! Some medical usage is fine, for some "recreationally", too. But not for all! No "soma" dogma! That's potentially dangerous and counter-productive, there's even an enslaving potential, as we can already see aplenty of such evidence in "developed" countries and "opiates" scandals. And I am not even going to "opium wars" between the Britain and China!!! You know how that affected the Chinese society...

    We most certainly do not need to get "high" to resolve our problems, that's for sure! If anything, that would slow it down, if not make it almost impossible! Altered state of mind might be OK for arts but not necessarily for Science and technology, let's get that straight! For that one must be focused, clear-minded, not distracted, precise, being able to make inferences and deductions, differentiations etc. etc. Not to be done when "under the influence"!

    Nuclear based power is NOT green and it is expensive and potentially extremely dangerous! I think you should re-think that one, too... Recently the EU Parliament rejected that and so called natural gas as "green", for many reasons!
     
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  8. case-sensitive

    case-sensitive MDL Expert

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    #8 case-sensitive, Jun 24, 2022
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    (OP)
    Thank you .

    Thats all realy good and i'm VERY pleased that your showing your intelligence and education ........... instead of deliberately presenting ' counter arguments ' as you usualy do .

    And also ...... though shall not covert thy neighbours ox , and though shalt not take the lords name in vain .

    Two bits that i dont agree with . One is that noone is sugesting spraying LSD from aeroplanes or forcing people to take it . BUT .......... it can be used very effectively as a tool in controled therapys .......... and as a recreational drug ......... IF used by responsible adults takeing care of set and setting . I dont crtisise you for your opinion . Because i see by the other things that you write that you realy think about things and want the best for us all and the biosphere .

    BUT ........ after studying drugs for 50 years i see that you dont have a clear view of why they are ' illegal ' , their history , the politics surounding their history and use . and what uses they can and do have in our society .

    To do that you would have to read at least a few factual books . Books with proof by internationaly renowned scientists . Because what is generaly presented as drug facts / knowledege is realy government propoganda . You understand that capital and their governments are keeping us down with lies , propoganda and fake news . The general view of drugs that they spread is part of that .

    To get a clearer view people could read ---- >

    The Politics of Heroin: CIA Complicity in the Global Drug Trade by Alfred W. McCoy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Politics_of_Heroin_in_Southeast_Asia

    The emperor wears no clothes by Jack herer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emperor_Wears_No_Clothes

    E for Ecstasy by Nicholas Saunders https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E_for_Ecstasy

    One scientist publicly said that if he hadnt taken LSD he wouldnt have made the discoverys he made .......... that got him a nobel prize . 4 Nobel Prize winners that credit taking LSD for them being so dang smart https://therooster.com/blog/4-nobel-prize-winners-credit-taking-lsd-them-being-so-dang-smart

    Gorski ........ you see that i'm not a total ingnoramus ....... and can discuss and debate with every person here and at least hold my own . I take drugs every day for the last 50 years , and i think that the drug laws are a crime against humanity ........ and that anyone who hasnt taken drugs ........ especialy LSD and MDMA ........ has been a good slave ......... and thrown their lives away ....... for the government . Working class ' life ' is like an old , stale , moldy sandwich ............ and drugs are a cherry on the top of the cake .

    And

    Nuclear powwer . The problem was the governments and their capitalist masters and not useing them if built and run responsibly . At the moment the only way ? we have to get rid of / reduce the nuclear waste around the world is to use it in other sorts of nuclear power stations . A BIG problem was that the governments used the sort of nuclear power stations that we have now to produce plutonium to be used in nuclear weapons . BUT ....... there are other sorts of reactirs that dont / dont produce as much waste ......... and reactors that can use it and therby reduce it .

    The future is fusion reactors not orwellian wave power , sun power , wind power .

    >Recently the EU Parliament rejected that and so called natural gas as "green", for many reasons!

    Yes ....... and since then they're talking about reopening nuclear powerstatiosn and coal power stations . There was a program on german TV a few days ago wich showed how easy it would be to make coal power stations much more efficient and NOT polute the atmopsphere . ( I was gob smacked )




    BUT ....... were still talking about what we could possibly do to save the biosphere ........ but not how to get there ....... Ways to make poly-tricker stop betraying us for money and the only way is to spread facts in the net ....... have open discussions and debates ........ AND STOP VOTEING IN ELECTIONS .

    When people vote they dont realy vote for people they vote for the system ....... and we have to change the system . To a system where politicians work for us , represent us ....... and not as now for work in the interests of capital , give us orders and lead us into disaster .
     
  9. case-sensitive

    case-sensitive MDL Expert

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    The ....... I'm annoyed thread was to give people the opertunity to ............ COMPLAIN ........... instead of as now in society eat s**t , be subserviant , acept everything with a smile on their faces and ignore / hide from the reality of the position that we've been lead into by governments , poly-trickers and their capitalist masters

    NO GOD NO MASTER .
     
  10. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    #10 gorski, Jun 25, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2022
    You wrote: "...though shall not covert thy neighbours ox , and though shalt not take the lords name in vain ."

    I was talking of the universal ones, not the religious ones, sorry - you misunderstood... The strictly religious ones do not interest me, I am not of the superstitious kind, ergo... Plus, I do not bear dogma of any kind...

    Then, you said: "Two bits that i dont agree with . One is that noone is sugesting spraying LSD from aeroplanes or forcing people to take it . BUT .......... it can be used very effectively as a tool in controled therapys .......... and as a recreational drug ......... IF used by responsible adults takeing care of set and setting . I dont crtisise you for your opinion . Because i see by the other things that you write that you realy think about things and want the best for us all and the biosphere .

    BUT ........ after studying drugs for 50 years i see that you dont have a clear view of why they are ' illegal ' , their history , the politics surounding their history and use . and what uses they can and do have in our society."


    Well, I don't think killing your most precious, Human part is good for anyone... And some of drugs - as documented - do precisely that!

    If it is not permanent, I have nothing against it. Just not when one is working, driving and operating "important equipment", like a bulldozer or a computer on a financial market, directing which way the world would go next or placing your vote in a Parliament while making laws for everyone etc. There are places and times for everything...

    Also: "The Politics of Heroin: CIA Complicity in the Global Drug Trade by Alfred W. McCoy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Politics_of_Heroin_in_Southeast_Asia

    The emperor wears no clothes by Jack herer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emperor_Wears_No_Clothes

    E for Ecstasy by Nicholas Saunders https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E_for_Ecstasy"


    I don't need to read books on the subject - I saw what I saw, I am not a young man, I have experiences aplenty, with such addicts, too - even some of my professors used it and I could see the effect such drugs have on people, so...

    Plus, you wrote: "One scientist publicly said that if he hadnt taken LSD he wouldnt have made the discoverys he made .......... that got him a nobel prize . 4 Nobel Prize winners that credit taking LSD for them being so dang smart https://therooster.com/blog/4-nobel-prize-winners-credit-taking-lsd-them-being-so-dang-smart "

    Ahem... OK, Freud used to be a cocaine addict - but we all know it's a 15 minute high and then one would do anything to get another 15 min high and not the rest of the day "low"... And we know how that ends... We're all adults here and we know why that is taken and so on...

    "Gorski ........ you see that i'm not a total ingnoramus ....... and can discuss and debate with every person here and at least hold my own . I take drugs every day for the last 50 years , and i think that the drug laws are a crime against humanity ........ and that anyone who hasnt taken drugs ........ especialy LSD and MDMA ........ has been a good slave ......... and thrown their lives away ....... for the government . Working class ' life ' is like an old , stale , moldy sandwich ............ and drugs are a cherry on the top of the cake."

    I certainly am nobody's slave and I haven't taken such drugs... I don't need to in order to see how they affect various people... I could see you are taking drugs, as your thoughts are ill-disciplined at times, you are all over the floor etc. etc. To be a serious scientists one needs clarity and discipline of thought etc. You simply put, do not have that - sorry but that's the truth... I bet you could be an artist or a craftsman or something great like that, creative in your own field - but not a scientists. And this is not a put-down, an insult! Just facts as I see them...

    And then you wrote: "Nuclear powwer . The problem was the governments and their capitalist masters and not useing them if built and run responsibly . At the moment the only way ? we have to get rid of / reduce the nuclear waste around the world is to use it in other sorts of nuclear power stations . A BIG problem was that the governments used the sort of nuclear power stations that we have now to produce plutonium to be used in nuclear weapons . BUT ....... there are other sorts of reactirs that dont / dont produce as much waste ......... and reactors that can use it and therby reduce it ."

    I am a part of a movement to disarm Humanity from such weapons and I have learnt a few things when it comes to using nuclear power in civilian purposes. Still dangerous, expensive and not yet a semi-safe way of storing such spent rods, I am sorry to have to say... Plus, they do not care if the rest of us are contaminated "a little" when they are transporting it to... somewhere... I used to live next to such a rail track, hence I learnt...

    "Yes ....... and since then they're talking about reopening nuclear powerstatiosn and coal power stations . There was a program on german TV a few days ago wich showed how easy it would be to make coal power stations much more efficient and NOT polute the atmopsphere . ( I was gob smacked )"

    A link, please?

    Crucially, you claimed: "...AND STOP VOTEING IN ELECTIONS .

    When people vote they dont realy vote for people they vote for the system ....... and we have to change the system . To a system where politicians work for us , represent us ....... and not as now for work in the interests of capital , give us orders and lead us into disaster ."


    Only if we are ready for a non-violent Revolution, which will create a truly free, liberated society which will not oppress and produce for profit but for our needs and not destroy the environment...

    Otherwise we must get involved - to avoid violence etc.
     
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  11. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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  12. case-sensitive

    case-sensitive MDL Expert

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    #12 case-sensitive, Jun 25, 2022
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    (OP)
    You adequately display whats wrong with society .

    Egoistic , subjective ignorance .

    Go away and study philosophy ........... especialy the bits with pythagoras , socrotes , plato and co ............ who are the basis of modern philosphy ........... and all took part in the Eleusinian Mysteries with tens of thousands of other people twice a year .

    Stop trying to troll you havent got the knowledge or intelligence to be any good at it .
     
  13. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    Look at your posts above and then compare with this one...

    Drugs do affect you badly...
     
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  14. case-sensitive

    case-sensitive MDL Expert

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    gorski ......... please stop trolling and dont saboatge this thread any more . If you want to play the fool please go back and play it in the corona thread . This thead isnt about sacrements , or your ego its about saveing the biosphere .
     
  15. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    I told you: stay off the drugs, it's playing havoc with your brain, with who you are! Just look at yourself, your mirror image here - from one extreme to another... I am concerned about your mental health...
     
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  16. case-sensitive

    case-sensitive MDL Expert

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    #16 case-sensitive, Jun 26, 2022
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    (OP)
    @ Replys to some of the things you said ---- >

    @ Drugs ....... IF you bothered to learn what ' Set and setting ' mean it would destroy a lot of the crap you wrote about drugs and your ignorant subjective views .

    @ Philosphy ........ If you did a bit of studying youd find out that the roots of all religeons ........... could have been / probably were drugs ......... the drug experiences that ' cavemen ' had and couldnt explain .

    If you want it easy just read the storys of moses , a shaman , in the bible ...... wich can easily and rationaly explained by the use of DMT ........ the story of jesus makeing water into ' wine ' for wich their is an easy explanation = claviceps paspali .......... and the story of feeding 5 thousand people with one loaf of bread wich also could have the same explanation = claviceps paspali ........ the same explenation as the eleusian mysterys wich could only have been claviceps paspalii or psylocybin mushrooms .

    And then turn those storys around and look at them from a modern scientific view point = There is no other known possible explanation for them .

    Then look up Soma the basis of indian religeons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soma_(drink)

    Then look up Peyote an integral part of a lot of american native religeon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peyote

    Then look up ayahuasca the basis of some south american religeons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayahuasca

    Then look up rastafari wich is built aroun cannabis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rastafari

    Then look up maria sabina https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/María_Sabina

    Then look up https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sacred_Mushroom_and_the_Cross

    Then look up salvia divinorum , shamanism / fly agaric and Iboga .

    @ Links ......... i post links and i'd like it if people wold show some initiative and at least read them before they diss them ........ and post rational arguments and links to other things , ways of looking at things , scientific developments = To take a positive part .

    @ Improveing coal fire power stations and other energy sources ........ At the moment coal powerstations have masive cooling towers .......... wich waste massive amounts of energy .......... that heat could be stored in tanks of molten salt ......... and then used as needed .

    @ Big brother and the obsoletion of the working classes ........... There was just a spot on euronews where they showed a lab that makes microrobots that have been used in sheep brains to destroy brain cysts ........ that were said to be developed to be used in children . The abuse potential is horrrific .

    @ Then there was a spot about robots takeing over the jobs of cooks in resurants ......... wich would take over jobs of workingclass people ......... replace them .........and make the unemployed = They wouldnt be needed anymore ....... and in the eyes of capital become a cost factor and a problem .

    @ Nuclear weapons ........ = the things that have prevented wars ......... and NO country in the world that has them will give them up .......... because that would mean that they're defensless ........... and also because the world has seen what happened when the libyans and the ukranians gave them up ......... and seen that since the koreans have nuclear weapons the americans have backed off and dont threaten them so much . The only time that governments will give up their defenses is if and when the create ' better ' weapons .

    You have a door in your home ......... with a lock ........... getting rid of either wouldnt be a good idea would it ? It wouldnt prevent people robbing you . The door and your lock do that ........ they are your defences .



    BUT ........ I'd rather not drift off into side issues ........ or have to try to sort out and explain your or other peoples lack of knowledge .......... and inability to think rationaly , objectively and neutraly ....... or do reaserch .
     
  17. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
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    #17 gorski, Jun 26, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2022
    Visit the centres for rehab people who are unable to deal with themselves or the world without the psychoactive substances and then tell me... These are dangerous substances - most of such s**t!!!!

    If anyone should tell off anyone for being biased - I should be telling you off, as you are utterly biased!

    As for nuclear issues - you have a large hole in your brain, "thinking" like that...
     
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  18. case-sensitive

    case-sensitive MDL Expert

    Nov 7, 2013
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    #18 case-sensitive, Jun 27, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2022
    (OP)
    Dont troll .


    I'm not talking about a party for people to abuse themselves and others . I'm talking about medicines , tools that are used to help people to see inside themselves , be honest with themselves , see the and their real prioritys and GROW UP and heal themselves ......... and society ...... and therby heal the biosphere .

    Look up the word entheogen .......... what it means , who coined it and the history behind it .

    A good place to start reading would be with ' The Road to Eleusis: Unveiling the Secret of the Mysteries ' by R. Gordon Wasson , Albert Hofmann , Carl A. P. Ruck https://www.amazon.com/Road-Eleusis-Unveiling-Secret-Mysteries/dp/1556437528

    And read the full amazon text .

    And

    Plants of the Gods: Their Sacred, Healing, and Hallucinogenic Powers – by Richard Evans Schultes , Albert Hofmann , Christian Rätsch https://www.amazon.com/Plants-Gods-...ym.3676f086-9496-4fd7-8490-77cf7f43f846&psc=1

    And read the full amazon text

    Id apreciate it if you want to take part in this thread if your positive ......... it doesnt matter if you dissagree .......... just stop trolling .

    The bit about entheogens is here because if people were taught how to use them responsibly they wouldnt be able to run away from themselves any more , lie to themselves any more and hide from their own guilty consciences .



    We have a moral dilema = While you and a lot of other people on the planet are stroking their egos talking ingnorant ego s**t in circles ..... and doing nothing ......... the population of the world gets bigger , the problem gets bigger and more people will die later .

    Wich is the bigger moral and ethical problem ? ........... getting rid of 5 - 6 billion people FAST and ending the causes for the problem now ........... or sitting around ' Moralisng ' about not killing people

    The ONLY answer is free ourselves ......... to take power from the people responsible for it and stop it .

    Whos job was it to see it comming and avoid it ? Who didnt do that ? Even after 2 hundred years of warnings . Who isnt doing it now ? Who drove and drives it on ? ........ And who profits from it ?

    = Parasitic poly-trickers and their rich and powerfull masters .

    I dont want this thread to drift off into being a drug thread . If you want to talk about drugs please do it in the drug thread that you opened .
     
  19. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
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    You are going to teach me Philosophy, ha?:whistling::facepalm::yeahyeah::biggrin::biggrin5: f**k, this is awesome!!!!:clapping::clapping::clapping::wavetowel2::wavetowel2::wavetowel2::w00t2::w00t2::w00t2::haha::haha::haha::Egypt::Egypt::Egypt::dance::dance::dance::bananajoj2::bananajoj2::bananajoj2:
     
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  20. Mr.X

    Mr.X MDL Guru

    Jul 14, 2013
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    @Tito
    I reported this post for profanity expecting for you to edit or delete it just like you did with my post a few days ago.