Hypervisor > OS > Docker > App

Discussion in 'Virtualization' started by TheSkaffer, Feb 16, 2020.

  1. TheSkaffer

    TheSkaffer MDL Senior Member

    May 16, 2010
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    Messing around with a few solutions like ESXI, ClearVM, FreeNAS, ProxMox to get a minimal hypervisor to run a couple of OS's in which I want a Docker with some Containers/Apps.

    Seems like a long way to go... Hypervisor > OS > Docker > Container/App

    Sure I could just run a CentOS or Debian straight on, but I loose the web administration that is rather comfy to have.

    Your thoughts?
     
  2. Sako549

    Sako549 MDL Novice

    Oct 18, 2011
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    It all depends on what you want to achieve and what hardware you have. Start with your infrastructure: What WAN/LAN you have, what Server and what computers you have, what OS and software, which is free and which is paid, etc... Then make a plan and move on.
    I personally tried about half a dozen different hypervisors. Some didn't meet my needs while others were basically over kill. Arguably enough, here are few options:
    Hyper-V Server 2019 is free. You can give it a try. After installing it, and setting the initial phase, you'll need a client computer to remote manage it. Then, install your guest systems.

    Proxmox is another option, while it has a free edition, but maintaining it with the guests might be a bumpy ride for many.

    ESXi is the lead in the market, but $ wise and hardware requirement would be a challenge.

    Again, in the end, it all comes to what you need to do. Please, let us know what you have done and what challenges you've experienced. Thanks!
     
  3. TheSkaffer

    TheSkaffer MDL Senior Member

    May 16, 2010
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    @Sako549

    Excellent answer. Allows me to share my grievances. :)

    It's for Lab and Monitoring.
    Lab > Webhost and sites PHP+MySQL test server.
    Monitoring > UNMS and Traefik to begin with. Probably Lansweeper as well. Maybe Xiaomi SmartHome, if even possible.

    I have been using W2012R2 (another machine) for a while and testing a few Virtuals in there. (That is my FS Host). At some point I even ran FreeNAS virtually inside Hyper-V, as an experiment. Worked well but only an experiment.

    My hardware is a SuperMicro X11* mobo, Xeon 6 Core CPU, 32GB ECC RAM and a couple of SSD's plus a few HDD's to that. Capacity, depending on storage conf, about 5TB. I recently started testing getting a Hypervisor again, since I aim to get some Docker Containers online, mentioned above.

    I haven't got around to set up a Hyper-V server on target machine, but I am running one virtually on my other server for now. Let me just say I may need to read up on MS CLI to run that. Bleh.
    In my testing I got ESXi (6.7) up but it would not allocate my HDD's as storage pool. It sees the disks, but generates an error that some attributed to MTU value, and others to dirty sectors, well checked both and cleaned the disks, but still no joy. The more I look at ESXi, the more I realize it seems to have a rather narrow HW support. Or I got some really odd drives... (pretty standard WD nas drives).

    So I went forward with FreeNAS as Host and Hypervisor, which worked well, only some irritating VNC issues (screen resolution) but I can run that and it has the functionality, but it can also be very complex. When testing some virtual machines , CentOS, Ubuntu, Debian, Debian failed to install at first, and after a renewed attempt it installed but never booted. Ubuntu suddenly started thinking I was entering the wrong credentials for sudo when getting Docker, so after some troubleshooting I dumped it too. CentOS seemed to work best as Guest, but the more I dug in to these Linux options the more I realized I need to configure Network for them and can't reuse port 80 on the same IP for the Host machine, and some similar issues I need to consider while installing apps with WebUI. Virtual Lan.

    In my search for something simpler, yet robust, I stumbled over HP's old Clear initiative. ClearOS and ClearVM. I have not gotten that up and running yet, but the concept might very well be spot on with Cloud administration of everything, once you have the VM running you can add OS more or less seamlessly. At least it looks that way.

    I have Proxmox, will install it, and glad you mentioned it since I have not gotten around to test it yet.
     
  4. TheSkaffer

    TheSkaffer MDL Senior Member

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    tried proxmox and broke it in less than 30 minutes after hours of prepping the stup... :confused:
     
  5. Sako549

    Sako549 MDL Novice

    Oct 18, 2011
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    Sorry for the late reply.
    I've been in your shoes a couple of times too. So, don't be too upset about it. At least you've learned something.
    At the first glance, Proxmox, is really promising. Perhaps, my lack of experience with it, lead me to broke it then. Possibly (I guess I must admit it and say certainly!) :)

    I guess, just like I wasted over 2 weeks, you'll need to test drive few more Hypervisor technologies, brake/fix them, up until you come to the decision, which one you feel comfortable with. Good luck with your endeavor and please do let us know what/why you have ended up with. Thanks.
     
  6. TheSkaffer

    TheSkaffer MDL Senior Member

    May 16, 2010
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  7. TheSkaffer

    TheSkaffer MDL Senior Member

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    @Sako549 I would appreciate some more thoughts on this. if you have any.
     
  8. Sako549

    Sako549 MDL Novice

    Oct 18, 2011
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    @ TheSkaffer Thank you very much. I really value your comment and please pardon the late reply.

    I do not have one simple and easy answer to you. We all know, that there is nothing as dynamic as IT world where anything can change anytime. Keeping our knowledge up-to-date is challenging even to the most and in nowadays IT environment, becomes next to impossible to learn everything and do it in "one-and-done" way.

    Virtualization and Hypervisor technologies are now mature products for over a decade. Many brands and flavours are out there to taste and try. It's true, they are far from perfection, but businesses rely on and they are in production.

    I might be mistaken, therefore please correct me if I'm wrong. Your #6 reply has gave me the impression that you are intended to build up an entire IT infrastructure from ground up. Possibly very small structure, but still using very enhanced materials and techniques. For example, it's just like my lab here... Install your routers/switches and configure them... Install a hypervisor, update and configure it... Then your OSs, followed by your apps and software you choose... I spend days and sometimes weeks to draw a plan asking myself questions: What's my goal and what I want to achieve? What hardware/software do I need and how much would cost? The list is long, but the idea still stands.

    Experience has convinced me that anyone can start small and then build upon. Start from the simplest and easiest point: S/FTP. Build it up on a non-critical isolated machine. Challenge yourself and your friends to hammer it (hack into it). Once everyone fails, move to your next step. This process is lengthy, but, the safest and the most educational one. Next, move to something that interests you and do the same... After sometime, you'll find that you already have all the tools, means and knowledge to compose one bigger platform that has all functions you wanted. Of course, that would be try, err, fix, rebuild, etc.

    Tried to make the answer as short as possible, and I know this would not answer many of your questions, but it's a broad area where many factors play huge role. Perhaps, many smarter guys/gals on this amazing MDL, can chip in their valuable ideas too.

    Thank you!
     
  9. TheSkaffer

    TheSkaffer MDL Senior Member

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    #9 TheSkaffer, Aug 23, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2020
    (OP)
    I feel this require a follow up.

    The last couple of months I have been trying to get some rather simple things running. Turns out at every single turn and step something did not work.

    My ESXi works and I have not changed anything in that, but I have not done anything more either. Turns out I got a couple of HPE Proliant G7 servers with 16 SAS drives each and upgradeable CPU's. 144GB DDR3 RAM as well. Old, I know but for a hobby guy like me, tremendous equipment. So I have been experimenting to get a Docker > Apps setup working. In that I needed a Host OS so I tried with Debian but ran in to some NIC drivers issues I was unable to solve due to the NIC being Broadcom and not "Holy Intel" which for some reason Debian has decided to not support. Yes there were ways around it and I did no less than a dozen attempts to get it working asking for advice and scrolling up and down debian docs and randomuser.blogspot docs. I gave up.

    So I tried Fedora, even Fedora Server 32. Installed, works, got an IP can manage it remotely - done. But wait that is also Linux? So some Linux works out of the box and some Linux don't. Windows Server 2019 also worked out of the box, just like Fedora. WTF is the matter with the Debian guys anyway...?

    Continuing... Fedora up and running, had an application called Cockpit for remote management of server via web interface, excellent. But is was lacking. Then I found Webmin. hell yeah, that gave me everything I could dream of. I can configure every aspect of the server from a web interface and even had a file manager - I have learned that having a graphical file manager in a Linux system is essential - so all good. Now for Docker. CRAP the Fedora Docker image wasn't working. Not the latest anyway. They even renamed it to Moby. WHY? They claim its the same as Docker, just other name... BUT WHY? Ok, so I go for it anyways, I do not like these things, you have a standard and then you keep to it. Until a new standard come along... So I have a working Host, and a somewhat working Docker. Next...

    One of the things I have wanted to install is Nextcloud.
    Share images and media, and also a functionality to pull images and videos via the device App to the Nextcloud server. But, when grabbing te Nextcloud Docker image I can login but it complains about user right for wwwdata for it system folder. I don't even understand the error fully but I am unable to fix it, despite looking up and asking nextcloud team.

    Then I start to get issues with Webmin, suddenly dependencies won't install, bash throws "installation aborted" on several attempts. I have yet to get an answer form Webmin on their Sourceforge page. One thing i DID get to work via Webmin was TOTP/TFA with Google authenticator, allowing me to expose the interface publicly with a dedicated user on limited access and with specified TFA logon.

    I am now well in to week three of these adventures. No Nextcloud. Not the latest Docker. No good replies or solutions from any of the communities answering for these applications. Someone even told me that the good thing about different Linux versions is that if something does not work in one, you make it work in another. NOT the answer I want to hear. Webmin still throws "installation aborted" when trying new things. I decide to ditch everything and go for Windows Server and Docker in that environment. After installing Nextcloud there, nothing, not even a login window.

    So right now I will be installing a regular LAMP server and setup Nextcloud manually. I have ditched Linux, I have ditched Docker and I go for what I know works and what I know how to configure, a local webserver running on a local nginx with a local MySQL MariaDB and full access to folders and conf files and no f**king terminal or CLI if I don't choose it myself.

    Oh, and I am nowhere near a working SFTP server yet... :)