I have a rant

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by Joe C, Mar 24, 2018.

  1. Joe C

    Joe C MDL Guru

    Jan 12, 2012
    2,667
    1,482
    90
    Lately there's been a lot on the news about gun control, and with the recent school shootings I can see why. But blaming guns is not the problem!
    This is a social issue. Who is supporting all these young kids to go to Washing to ban guns? Why are they not told that guns have been in this country for the last 200yrs, and there wasn't any school shooting until now?
    I'm all for school safety 100% do not misunderstand. But I think we need to teach our kids that we need to address social and mental health issues which is what is truly at the heart of this problem of these schools shootings. It's not the guns. We have become so stupid as a nation that we can't tell the difference between what is a social issue and this countries heritage?
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  2. Tiger-1

    Tiger-1 MDL Guru

    Oct 18, 2014
    4,083
    4,550
    150
    @ Joe C yep Dude, I agree and it looks like the world is running out ...;):rolleyes:
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  3. John Sutherland

    John Sutherland MDL Addicted

    Oct 15, 2014
    669
    940
    30
    Two of the biggest problems I have seen that we as a society absolutely refuse to deal with:

    1.) Excessively graphic violence in video games.

    2.) Excessively graphic violence in Hollywood movies.

    A person's brain is in a continuous state of development from the time they are born until they are about 21-25 years old, depending on the individual. When someone is exposed to extreme acts of violence for a prolonged period of time, they begin to believe that this is normal and acceptable behavior, when it is not. Our children have been brainwashed by the video game industry and by Hollywood for the last few generations, and so far we as a society have blissfully ignorant of it, or have been unwilling or unable to do anything about it. The time is long overdue.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  4. Joe C

    Joe C MDL Guru

    Jan 12, 2012
    2,667
    1,482
    90
    I agree... and yet they banned bugs bunny and road runner because that is a violent toon? We are full of s**t to believe that
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  5. zen45

    zen45 MDL Senior Member

    Feb 25, 2010
    410
    545
    10
    try telling a joke any more, it seems we have a thin skinned society , in school if another guy stole your girl you ether tried to beat him up or you let the air out of his tires you didn't shoot and kill them both ! people don't seem to talk with each any more with technology increasing texting, social net works Facebook , twitter , video games we connect more with machines then people . remember if there was a room filled with people prior to gaming devices and cell phones they would talk to each other and interact with each other, now you get a room filled with people and their faces are looking down at their devices they don't even look at each other more and more their reality is their devices and their lives ! people have been bullied on their cell phones and couldn't handle it and killed themselves , some times I wonder if before people are allowed on social networks that should they have mental evaluation's first to see if they handle them ! what causes one person to shoot another because they are offended and others who wouldn't think of shooting another person no matter how mad they get ? remember the gun didn't run around killing people !
     
  6. Tiger-1

    Tiger-1 MDL Guru

    Oct 18, 2014
    4,083
    4,550
    150
    @ zen45 exactly you make my day :good3::yes:
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  7. dhjohns

    dhjohns MDL Guru

    Sep 5, 2013
    3,276
    1,731
    120
    OK, to clarify. Assault weapons are not covered under the 2nd amendment per the Supreme Court of the United States. The kids are talking stricter gun control as the majority of people wish, but congress does nothing because it is in the pockets of the NRA. The NRA protects the gun manufacturers, and that is it. Cartoons, video games, and movies do not contribute to violence. People try to blame these venues, but this is just shifting responsibility. So far as jokes are concerned, yes certain jokes are inappropriate, and we should always be careful not to offend others. This is common courtesy, and just makes sense. I try to live my life to the best that I can, and to quote a famous book, I try to treat my neighbor as I would tret myself. There is nothing wrong with peace, love, and understanding.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  8. PointZero

    PointZero MDL Member

    Oct 5, 2011
    1,141
    3,167
    60
    dhjohns: I'm curious what your definition of "assault weapon" is. The AR-15 is the most popular rifle in the US but when some people see one with a 30-round magazine, they freak out and consider it an "assault rifle" when it's just a semi-automatic rifle.

    A real assault rifle has to be selective-fire, meaning it can change from semi-auto to full-auto (or burst-mode) type firing. Those types of guns are already highly regulated. An M-16 is an assault rifle but the civilian version, the AR-15, is not.

    I do think that some of the NRA's tactics are ridiculous though.


    Joe C: guns were part of Australia's heritage as well, but in 1996, they decided they'd had enough of mass murders and put serious restrictions on guns. Gun crimes went down after that.

    I am pro-gun and own a few of them. But if the government passed gun laws like Australia did, I wouldn't have a problem with that because I think it would benefit society overall.

    It's not just kids shooting up schools. Look at that crazy guy in Las Vegas that killed nearly 60 and wounded over 500; he was 64 years old.
     
  9. dhjohns

    dhjohns MDL Guru

    Sep 5, 2013
    3,276
    1,731
    120
    An assault rife is one that is modeled after a weapon of war. So, the AR-15 is an assault rifle, and is not protected by the 2nd amendment regardless of its popularity. SCOTUS said that the 2nd amendment does not provide protection for assault weapons, as there are plenty of handguns, and long rifles available for people to protect themselves. The late Justice Scalia was instrumental in this decision. It really makes no difference what I think an assault rifle is, it is what SCOTUS thinks it is. That is what counts.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  10. Joe C

    Joe C MDL Guru

    Jan 12, 2012
    2,667
    1,482
    90
    It's really not about assault rifles and guns in general. It's about the lack of mental health in the U.S. If we didn't have the type of mental people that think it's o.k. to use any type of gun on anybody to kill, then this whole debate about guns would be null. If they can't get an assault rifle they'll find something else and that includes rental trucks too.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  11. Joe C

    Joe C MDL Guru

    Jan 12, 2012
    2,667
    1,482
    90
    This is a homicide rate in Australia report done in June 2017....
    https://theconversation.com/three-charts-on-australias-declining-homicide-rates-79654


    I find it unusual that firearm homicides have increased since 2005 in a country where guns laws have been increased
    And...........Even with more restrictions with guns, That still does not stop people from killing each other!
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  12. PointZero

    PointZero MDL Member

    Oct 5, 2011
    1,141
    3,167
    60
    Joe C: I agree. If one type of device isn't available, another type will be used, if a person has that intent. I've seen large screwdrivers used in such a manner. There was a suicidal pilot in Europe a couple years ago that intentionally flew a plane with 150 people into a mountain. Guns aren't the only way that people are killed, but it does generate a lot of press coverage. Many more people are killed by pharmaceutical drugs than guns.

    The lack of mental health care in the US is part of a larger problem with the way health care in general is made available. The whole health care system in the US needs a complete overhaul.

    That last chart shows that the rates have gone up since 2005, but they're still half of what they were in 1996 (when the laws were enacted).
     
  13. WindowsGeek

    WindowsGeek MDL Addicted

    Jun 30, 2015
    507
    101
    30
    My opinion in all of this, we leave in a violented culture fuel by alcohol, drugs, guns, pornography and severe mental illness I believe that's all connected and we will see sadly more mass shootings in the future, I respect the second amendment but do we need military style weapons with high capacity rounds upgraded with a bump stock to turn the weapon to automatic to defends your home and family in my opinion no, a AR 15 or sig sauer are weapons to kill a lot of people very quickly they serve no other purpose, that been said humans have been killing each other sense the beginning of our civilization the only thing that has change is our technology now we can do it more efficient.
     
  14. Yen

    Yen Admin
    Staff Member

    May 6, 2007
    11,363
    11,236
    340
    #14 Yen, Mar 28, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2018
    Well this is a complex matter. It's not the guns right. There is somebody who aims and squeezes the trigger...

    The cause of accumulation of use resides in our society, it is a social human issue.

    Anyway a way to prevent that is to restrict access to weapons/guns.

    When you have got own little kids or even still babies you do hide matches or detergent tabs from them even because they could harm themselves or others.

    This is just a reasonable procedure!

    Besides of that wearing guns does actually have no other purpose than to kill / do harm / create fear...

    There are two sides from where 'school shootings' can be prevented. To restrict guns and to do social/educational countermeasures.

    It is just cause and effect. Nobody shoots without a gun. And nobody would shoot another one when being aware of social/human values and respect....

    It of course would be better there would be nobody who would use a gun against a schoolmate because of human Reason and responsibility and respect....but....

    As mentioned already.....would you forget matches on the table when you have (own) little kids around?

    Little kids = persons who are not able to handle something with needed responsibility due to lack of social experiences, understanding and (social) education.....

    matches = thing that can do harm..others and oneself

    There is no difference...consequently one would have to hide guns from persons who are not able to handle them with needed responsibility due to lack of social experiences, understanding and (social) education.....or whatever reason...
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  15. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

    Jul 26, 2012
    3,718
    4,054
    120
    #15 Michaela Joy, Mar 28, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2018
    In New York, you can't carry a firearm into the City Limits unless you have a carry permit.
    And those are not handed out like drivers licenses are. There are stringent requirements to carry concealed.
    You can get a range permit, but there are special requirements for transportation to and from the gun range.
    Guns are -NEVER- carried loaded. If the firearm has a clip, it had better be empty.

    If the police stop you and the gun can be easily loaded, they will confiscate the firearm and arrest you.
    Once again, it comes down to state law. The Government does not belong meddling in the affairs of the individual states.

    Case & Point: Medical marijuana. Marijuana possession has the same penalties as heroin possession, which is ridiculous (IMHO)
    New York State accepts Medical marijuana for the treatment of PTSD, but veterans can't take advantage of it because it's against federal law. (VA hospitals are federal entities)

    See here: https://www.health.ny.gov/regulations/medical_marijuana/


    The problem seems to be with youth and the mental instabilities that arise lack of sensible input and bad upbringing. (bad can mean apathetic as well.)
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  16. MS_User

    MS_User MDL Guru

    Nov 30, 2014
    2,833
    474
    90
    #16 MS_User, Mar 28, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2018
    This will never stop as long as u have mentally unstable people with lack of mental health help and easy access to guns....besides they think more gun law restrictions will stop it...i will remind our politicians and law makers criminals dont buy their weapons legally and a lot of mentally unstable people also know how to buy in the streets.
     
  17. PointZero

    PointZero MDL Member

    Oct 5, 2011
    1,141
    3,167
    60
    You missed the most common reason for wearing a gun- to protect oneself. 99.999% of people will never need to use it for that purpose, but they feel more comfortable knowing they have it available.

    I don't wear a gun because I don't feel a need to, but if I wanted to, it would be perfectly legal (where I live) and many people do carry. Of the people who carry, the vast majority are concealed carry, meaning others can't see the gun so as to avoid creating fear.

    As Joe C pointed out above, a rental truck (among other things) can be used as a weapon. For example, a crazy guy in Nice, France used one to run over and kill 86 people and injure more than 400 in 2016.

    The most recent high-profile school shooting in the US (in Florida) was not done by a little kid, but by a 19 year old who purchased the gun legally himself. There's talk of increasing the age limit to buy in that state to 21 because of this.

    There really is not an easy answer/solution to this problem.
     
  18. Yen

    Yen Admin
    Staff Member

    May 6, 2007
    11,363
    11,236
    340
    #18 Yen, Mar 29, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2018
    That's the most named reason, yes I know but for my understanding it is no valid reason.

    In conclusion to your statistics guns are useless 99.999% (no use made literally) the comfortable feeling is based on a fixed idea = I have a gun that makes me 'safer' is based on an illusion.....and additionally the 'advantage' is probably non-existent because one has to assume the other one wears a gun, too.

    I think it has something to do with self-awareness. Why does one feel more comfortable when wearing a gun? From where comes the feeling to be uncomfortable?
    Who/what is threatening me that I would have to protect myself?

    The true 'feeling' awareness to be safe comes from real self-awareness, not from the idea to have a gun!

    Besides of that at the moment when one decides to go out with a gun one would make use of it 'if needed'. It is always associated with the potential of realizing violent actions and the will to cause a tensed situation which can escalate due to loss of awareness of the situation. One accepts to get involved into a situation which might end with injury/death. (Personal) armament is never a solution.


    Sure. Or Berlin, Christmas Market 2016....or even bare hands can kill...
    But that is no pro argument for guns.


    Something is wrong in the US, though.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34996604


    Incarceration in the United States
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States

    Extreme high values and rising....


    I am not somebody who wants to forbid. This applies to 'drugs', too. (Whereas all the so called drugs can have advantages, guns not at all)

    But I am someone who demands an evidence that the one is able to make proper use of it.
    Not everybody should get a gun....and when the society is changing like it is in the US one has the duty to rethink about a 'heritage'...
    maybe the US society is not able anymore to take that heritage....

    Maybe the older guys still can do that with responsibility but the coming generations not anymore...?!
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  19. PointZero

    PointZero MDL Member

    Oct 5, 2011
    1,141
    3,167
    60
    I mentioned in my first post in this thread that I think society would be better off with stricter gun regulations and I really do believe that. But currently, many states in the US allow the option of carrying a gun and many people do carry.

    In my state, there used to be training that was required to carry concealed weapons but laws were changed so that just about anybody can now carry concealed. Gun laws here are now much less stringent.

    In my area, there have been incidents where just regular people end up dead because both people have been carrying guns and tempers escalated. Incidents like cars cutting each other off that in the past would've resulted in yelling, but not deaths.

    I do believe that more training should be required to carry a gun, not less.

    My point about rental trucks (or large screwdrivers or planes) is not meant to be a pro argument for guns, but to point out that people who have an intent to hurt or kill others will find a way, even if all guns are eliminated.

    Unfortunately, there are some people in society who are crazy or don't think rationally and that is why some people choose to carry guns- to protect themselves from that type of person. But many other people end up as a casualty now because of the widespread use of guns.
     
  20. PointZero

    PointZero MDL Member

    Oct 5, 2011
    1,141
    3,167
    60
    Here's an example from today's news of what I meant by crazy people (in my previous post): https://www.abc15.com/news/region-p...ody-after-arson-death-in-phoenix-neighborhood

    Guy set a lady's front door on fire then breaks through her back door late at night. Luckily a neighbor helped her escape. Another neighbor was not lucky and was killed by this guy.

    Stories like this are why some people choose to own guns to defend themselves.