I just don't get it - a question regarding SLIC 2.1 and OEM

Discussion in 'Windows 7' started by MyDigitalName, Sep 12, 2009.

  1. MyDigitalName

    MyDigitalName MDL Member

    Sep 12, 2009
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    Hi all,
    I've been reading the stickies but there's something I just don't get, so I decided to sign up and ask. But, let's go in an orderly fashion, first the story, then the questions.
    I ordered a Samsung NC10 for my wife.
    While it is on its way, I thought it would be a good idea to figure out what to put on it instead of that lame XP Home, so I asked my friends around about Windows 7. They said it will work fine, but they did not recommend the 64bit version and I should probably stick with the x86 version (Question #1: Win7 64bit or x86 for a Samsung NC10?).
    I thought I could give Windows 7 a go, but it's not available yet, so I kept asking questions about keys and activation from my friends and I ended up on this forum. I found some threads and stickies about NC10 and Win7 activation, BIOS modding, etc.
    I concluded that since it's a laptop, I might be better off with a BIOS mod than installing a hack every time MS decides to update a DLL to delay the inevitable. Anyway, there is something here that I do not understand.
    I understand, OEM is meant to be an offline activation method, not requiring any user interaction - only a disk, the appropriate BIOS and a serial number. And that brings us to question #2: say, I have the OEM disk, I have the SLIC 2.1 BIOS, an OEM key and I do a clean install (formatting the drive): why do I need to install a certificate and use 7loader when it should work just fine?

    Could someone clarify this?
    Thank you.
     
  2. kukubau

    kukubau MDL Addicted

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    Installing a certificate is part of the offline activation, doesn't have anything to do with loaders. You don't have to install any loader if you're using a modded bios.
     
  3. HotCarl

    HotCarl MDL Addicted

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    #3 HotCarl, Sep 12, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 20, 2017
    You need 3 things for OEM offline activation:
    1) A SLIC 2.1 enabled BIOS (whether from a modded BIOS, or from a loader that loads up right before Windows 7 starts and emulates a SLIC 2.1 enabled BIOS, or hopefully pre-installed on the BIOS that your laptop will come with (check with RW-Everything))
    2) A matching certificate (you need to install an OEM certificate that matches the OEM vendor of the SLIC that you have "installed" on your system; e.g. if you have Samsung SLIC in your BIOS (or loaded up via GRLDR prior to windows start) you need to install a Samsung certificate...)
    3) An OEM SLP key (the key's vendor does not matter, you can use a Dell OEM SLP key with a Samsung SLIC 2.1 enabled BIOS and a Samsung certificate...)

    Certificates and SLP keys are the easy part. It is when deciding how to implement SLIC 2.1 is where the decision comes in...

    A BIOS mod is the best way to go, you just risk "bricking" your new laptop if things go wrong. The best way to do a BIOS mod is to create a DOS boot disk that contains all the files you will need for the flash, then reboot your PC with the USB drive plugged in, and have the laptop boot off of the USB boot disk into DOS to flash... IMHO it is never a good idea to flash from within the Windows environment...too much background things can cause problems (e.g. something running in the background may cause your system to hang and bjork the flash). As mentioned prior though, with a BIOS mod you must be able to follow directions (or know what you are doing) because you risk ruining your BIOS with a bad flash and rendering your laptop unbootable (and you will either have to go through a hassle trying to reflash it back to normal, or take it to a repair shop...and nobody wants to see that happen...).

    IMHO, a loader is the second best option. It is safer than a BIOS mod in the respect that if something "goes wrong" then the worst that will happen is your laptop will not boot Windows (but a simple fix can usually be done to make Windows bootable again, or worst case scenario is you will have to reinstall windows...but at least your system is not rendered useless...).
    Loader programs will install grub loader (GLDR) which will boot up right before windows does and write the SLIC 2.1 tables into memory (to emulate a SLIC 2.1 enabled BIOS) each time the PC boots. GRLDR will then load windows after. Windows will load and look in memory to see if your BIOS has SLIC 2.1 and will see the information written by GRLDR and assume that your BIOS is thus SLIC 2.1 enabled. (Essentially loaders trick windows into "thinking" your BIOS has SLIC 2.1).
    The down side to loaders is that while they have no risk of ruining your PC, they can *possibly* be disabled by microsoft at some point down the road via a Windows Update...at which point you can just install a newer loader and all will be well again (at least that is how it worked for Vista...when they released SP1 and disabled the more common loaders, one could just install a new loader and would be good to go...).

    You need a certificate installed that matches the vendor of your SLIC. Since you have a Samsung laptop (and if it has SLIC 2.1 enabled in the BIOS already; you can check with a tool named RW-Everything when you get the laptop to be sure) then you will need to find a Samsung certificate to go with it (it is a Windows requirement for activation offline...and Windows requires that the certificate match the vendor of the SLIC 2.1 present in your BIOS). The vendor of the OEM SLP key does not matter. As far as the "OEM disk" goes, I assume that you mean that you have downloaded an OEM copy of the Windows 7 install disk. That will work just fine, just install it without entering the key (leave the key blank) and be sure that you un-check the option to have windows automatically activate it's self online after install. After the successful install, you would then have to copy the certificate you have to your Windows 7 install drive (I usually just toss it in the root folder so it is easy to find) and install the certificate and key via an elevated command console. To do this, you would do the following:
    -Click the Start button
    -In the Run/Search bar, type "cmd" (with no quotes)
    -When "cmd.exe" is shown above as a result, right click on it and select "Run as Administrator"
    ->Now you have an elevated cmd console session opened.
    ->Next, type the following commands, 1 at a time, pressing then [Enter] key after each...
    Code:
    slmgr.vbs c:\cert.xrm-ms
    slmgr.vbs -ipk XXXXX-XXXXX-XXXXX-XXXXX
    
    NOTE:
    ->replace "c:\cert.xrm-ms" with the proper path and filename. (e.g. if your certificate is Samsung.xrm-ms and you have the certificate in the root of your C drive (C:\), then the command would be "slmgr.vbs c:\samsung.xrm-ms")
    ->replace the "XXXXX-XXXXX-XXXXX-XXXXX" with an actual OEM SLP key which can be found easily with a search. I recommend an Acer or Dell key as they are the most recent.
     
  4. hexx0r

    hexx0r MDL Novice

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    #4 hexx0r, Sep 12, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: May 23, 2017
  5. Rosco

    Rosco MDL Addicted

    Oct 29, 2007
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    #6 Rosco, Sep 12, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2009
    The choice between Win 7 - 64 and Win7 - x86 is that 64 bit versions can access more memory - and requires more - while Win7 - x86 is 32 bit software and limited to about 3 Gb memory. 64 bit has stronger driver enforcement and other features and runs 32 bit software in an "emulated" environment. There are other reasons why 64 bit is superior. That said almost all commercial software is 32 bit.

    If you modify the BIOS you do not need any sort of loader or software patch and this is my preferred way to go.

    You do need to install the certificate and key to match the version of Win7 or Vista you install - the key is tied to the version of Windows - the certificate is related to the SLIC table that is in the BIOS after it is modified.

    After Win7 is up and running without supplying any key during setup you install the certificate first with a simple command which is almost always supplied when you download the certificate - if not the steps are outlined here.

    You then install the key with a simple command and it accepts your computer is a genuine OEM machine and never tries to activate online.

    Be aware that if you install a BIOS modification it may have - say - a "Dell" SLIC table in it and a program like Everest will show your OEM status as "Dell" for example.

    This doesn't matter (however I do not have a laptop and have never had any trouble with ASUS or Gigabyte Motherboards but have seen reports of laptop troubles - but mostly with loaders and of course your laptop probably has has a genuine SLIC but there will be a shortage of certificate and keys for some months yet ) and if you search the net you can find how to install all sorts of OEM info into the registry to display what you like including your own logo. All of these so called "flashy" loaders are simply re-hashing the original "loader" developed for Vista and combining some simple registry insertions - all of which you can do yourself without the risk of malware from dodgy download sites and you can learn something too.

    Hope this helped :):confused:
     
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  6. MyDigitalName

    MyDigitalName MDL Member

    Sep 12, 2009
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    Hi everyone,
    thank you for your fast responses, that's a great deal of info about getting it done.

    Q1: x86 vs. 64bit: check, x86 it is.
    Q2: I still don't understand why the certificate is needed. I mean, all your instructions are pretty clear about the fact that Windows 7 won't be activated without it, but do you really anticipate that all OEM disks will ship with a separate disk including the certificate and the instructions to install it? Inexperienced users will be unable to install Windows 7 and there would be a lot of calls to support (which is costly and impractical), certificates would be very easy to loose (and duplicate), etc. My expectation would be to make the process as simple as possible, meaning that the user just inserts the OEM disk, enters serial, and installs the OS - without messing around with aforementioned post-installation tasks. Of course, it would mean that the certificate has to be on the OEM disk and installed automatically during the normal installation process, or, it has to be on a dongle, or maybe the BIOS. Dongle should be out of question; again, it is not practical. So, we can narrow it down to the BIOS or the OEM install disk. That said: Did anyone mess around with this? I there any way to integrate the certificate(s) into the OEM disk (so one would not have to mess around with it manually afterwards) or the BIOS? I guess it's hard to speculate until we can see a real OEM image (from a vendor, not M$).
    Thank you.
     
  7. oldude

    oldude MDL Member

    Dec 30, 2007
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    Q2: The certificate and serial (cd key ) are in the OEM cd when you install it is installed automatically
     
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  8. Phazor

    Phazor MDL Expert

    Sep 1, 2009
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    #9 Phazor, Sep 13, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: May 23, 2017
    Its the disk, and it has always been.

    Check this out, it should answer all your questions as to how this functions...
     
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  9. MyDigitalName

    MyDigitalName MDL Member

    Sep 12, 2009
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    #10 MyDigitalName, Sep 13, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 29, 2017
    (OP)
    oldude,
    then I have to assume that the post-installation tasks are required because the key and the certificates are not on the disk.
    I've done some reading around about this disk and it seems that M$ released the same identical disk to all vendors, so it seems only logical not to include all keys and certificates on the very same disk. I guess each vendor will create its own OEM disk by adding these to the same M$ disk. Is that a good guess? If so, it means that I just need to take this disk and put the info on it somehow and tada: no post-install mess, will work right away.

    Phazor,
    this seems to be the answer to my question to oldude above. Thank you for the link; I shall give it a go when the laptop arrives.

    zort,
    thank you for the link. I think I have downloaded this already; actually, I have two of these. One called 09CA_SLIC_HP.rar and the other called 10CA_SLIC_HP.rar. The former says 09CA Phoenix, the latter says 10CA AMI. The latter one does not include the certificate in the package and there are differences in a few files when I do a binary comparison. I can't tell what BIOS I have until the machine arrives, but I guess I will need the newer one(?).
     
  10. HotCarl

    HotCarl MDL Addicted

    Jul 21, 2009
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    #11 HotCarl, Sep 14, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 29, 2017
    Hopefully this clears something up...this is the basic process. You mostly correct in your assumption. :)

    -Microsoft releases the OEM version of their software to OEM vendors.
    -OEM vendors take the DVD and install it on a PC (...with a SLIC 2.1 enabled BIOS of course; This PC would be essentially the prototype of the series of machine that they are going to be selling with Windows 7 pre-installed on it...)
    -OEM Vendors then install the certificate in the OS along with whatever drivers and apps are needed (Certificates are a windows requirement for offline activation with an OEM SLP key is all you need to know, and the certificate must match the OEM manufacturer of the SLIC 2.1 tables present in the BIOS; a certificate is not included in the OS backup software the OEM provides because it is not needed since the key that will be used to activate Windows if it is ever reinstalled is an OEM:Non-SLP/Retail key (found on the label on the side/bottom of the PC) which requires online/phone activation...)
    -OEM vendors activate the copy offline with a SLP key
    -OEM vendors now create a disk image of this PC to then be imaged onto all of the hard drives of all the other PCs that they build with the exact same configuration; e.g. all PCs of a same series (ex: Dell Latitude 9000 series) would have their hard drives imaged with that original image.
    -OEM vendors then slap a label on the bottom/side of the newly manufactured PC that contains an OEM:Non-SLP/Retal key so if the end user ever needs to reinstall the OS, they can use the software disk(s) provided from the OEM, in addition to the non-SLP key provided on the sticker (which is different from the original SLP key used to activate the PC before it was shipped, as the key on the sticker will require online/phone activation...).
     
  11. 911medic

    911medic MDL Guru

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    #12 911medic, Sep 14, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 29, 2017
    It is not difficult to add the certs, pid.txt, and scripts to run after install to install more programs, to a disc.

    You may already have 2.1 slic in place when you get your machine. The first thing you should do is upload a rweverything report.

    Do not flash a bios because you think it is the right one..you better know it is the right one...:cool::D
     
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  12. FuzzyMaster

    FuzzyMaster MDL Member

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  13. HotCarl

    HotCarl MDL Addicted

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  14. FuzzyMaster

    FuzzyMaster MDL Member

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    Even a "brief" or "basic" explanation should be accurate.
     
  15. HotCarl

    HotCarl MDL Addicted

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    #16 HotCarl, Sep 14, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2009
    If you are implying that my post is inaccurate then I fail to see your point as what you say, if interpreted as the only way of doing things, as you have clearly interpreted mine (although there are many ways that OEMs do these things because there are many different kinds of OEMs and not all are the typical Sony or HP Royalty OEM that you describe...), is incorrect as well.
    You assume I am just talking about Royalty OEMs when I tried to incorporate all OEMs in general into my basic example.

    You also assume I am speaking of laptops. I gave the model of a laptop as an example in one small part, but the overall example I provided applies to any PCs that are made by OEMs.

    ...so you make 2 incorrect assumptions then proceed to say that I am incorrect about something...
     
  16. 911medic

    911medic MDL Guru

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    Easy boys....You both hit the main points.

    Hardly worth the micturation match...If you get my drift..:eek:;)

    *If only they would use their power for good*:p
     
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  17. FuzzyMaster

    FuzzyMaster MDL Member

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    Yah, but its just SOOOOO fun sometimes to poke people :D:p:D: ....

    ....especially those that take life just a tad too seriously or can't take criticism without always having to have a rebuttle (or the last word) ...

    Btw, HotCarl, you do realize that when you go back and edit a previous post, the time of the edit is shown at the bottom of the post.....ha, ha, ha....:D
     
  18. HotCarl

    HotCarl MDL Addicted

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    #19 HotCarl, Sep 14, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2009
    Check all the times of my edits you want. I have edited none after I have made other comments, and only edited to clarify points that I thought were a little convoluted or needed further explaining, so I don't know what you are talking about. You are being argumentative and it was evident from your first post contradicting mine. You have nothing better to do than try and point out meaningless flaws in other people's posts. You are not worth any more of my time.

    Good day. :)
     
  19. domme2812

    domme2812 MDL Novice

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    #20 domme2812, Sep 14, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 29, 2017
    Hi,

    I am the guy who did both mods for the NC10 Bios.
    Both of them are Phoenix bioses, the entry in zort's list simply is wrong, there has never been an AMI Bios for the NC10.

    As long as the device you will get has a Bios with a version ending on "CA" (there seem to be some machines out there having a Bios version ending on "D0", although I have personally never seen one), using 10CA_SLIC_HP.rar on your device will be fine. As for the missing certificate...I simply forgot to include it in the .rar file. ;-) You can simply use the certificate from the 09CA file.