It's not stealing if it's something you need!? A discussion on the topic of ethics...

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by timesurfer, Oct 22, 2013.

  1. timesurfer

    timesurfer MDL Developer

    Nov 22, 2009
    8,527
    4,068
    270
    #1 timesurfer, Oct 22, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2013
    I heard that line in a Seinfeld episode

    Jerry's Mom said it!

    It was an episode about how old people steal...lol

    But really it's an ethical question about if it's not stealing if it's something you need?

    Let the debating begin :eek:...lol

    [​IMG]
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  2. OldMX

    OldMX MDL Senior Member

    Jul 30, 2009
    421
    141
    10
    dafuq...its still stealing :\
     
  3. oldsh_t

    oldsh_t MDL Expert

    Dec 23, 2009
    1,012
    479
    60
    I'm one of those OLD PEOPLE:D and I say it's stealing ...........BUT!!.................. if I ever saw an old person steal, I would look the other way. There are many old people out there on a fixed income and that income does not grow with inflation. They may need something like food!!
     
  4. R29k

    R29k MDL GLaDOS

    Feb 13, 2011
    4,675
    4,276
    150
    No it isn't, just take what you need and put a patent on it, companies do that all the time. If you want a faster method then just have an ak47 and a few hand grenades and you can convince most people of almost anything. It's all about perspective and context. For example, if I walked into Bill Gates living room unannounced and sat down with the family they might be a bit disconcerted. But if I pointed out that I am a human and the world is my toilet just like any of the fauna running in the forest, then I might have a chance of not meeting the security. Now if I have the ak47 and grenades, then I might be able to stay over a few days.
     
  5. Paiva

    Paiva MDL Developer

    Apr 9, 2011
    1,275
    1,455
    60
    If you think like nothing is wrong when it needs .

    Work to get what you want :)
     
  6. timesurfer

    timesurfer MDL Developer

    Nov 22, 2009
    8,527
    4,068
    270
    #6 timesurfer, Oct 22, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2013
    (OP)
    This is defnately an ethical debate regarding more than stealing and could be considered also an moral debate but am curious do they let the elderly off the hook more than middle aged or youth?

    :wheelchair:

    http://www.debate.org/opinions/is-i...-only-means-by-which-the-food-may-be-obtained

    But what if they can't work or don't make enough money :ranting: where's the compassion :eek:

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/starving-children-stealing-food-to-survive-1492402
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  7. Paiva

    Paiva MDL Developer

    Apr 9, 2011
    1,275
    1,455
    60
    I think all we can to help people.

    Donate food, clothes and everything (=




    " I killed to get food, I stole to get something ... "

    No end justifies the means.
     
  8. timesurfer

    timesurfer MDL Developer

    Nov 22, 2009
    8,527
    4,068
    270
    Everything like shelter for all human beings regardless of income?

    And what if those places for food and clothing are closed and you need to eat or a jacket to not freeze outside?

    Besides killing to get an sandwich :eek:...lol...the end is death if you don't have water, food and sometimes shelter

    This is something none of us understand till we've been there ourselves with those feelings of need

    "Walk in another's shoes"

    Which reminds me of some indigenous communities that think of what everyone needs in total not such an "everyman for himself state of mind". That "everyman for himself state of mind" divides us and puts us at odds with each other and ourselves :huh:
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  9. Myrrh

    Myrrh MDL Expert

    Nov 26, 2008
    1,401
    500
    60
    There are organizations which exist to help people in need, given to voluntarily by those who have more. Thou shalt not steal!
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  10. timesurfer

    timesurfer MDL Developer

    Nov 22, 2009
    8,527
    4,068
    270

    But starve or be malnutritioned or have your kids starve or be malnutritioned to uphold a commandment?

    Not sure I agree!?

    Or if that is a compassionate attitude?

    An example of spiritual law as an demonstration on how an commandment might have exceptions!?

    Quoting the Quran:

    "Always claim being a believer, but if you know you and your family are going to be killed for believing then say you don't believe!"

    God is smarter than commandments as good intentioned as they might be

    The bible also says thou shalt not kill, but if someone is going to kill you is it ok to kill in defense of one's self?!

    Commandments debunked :p...lol
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  11. Myrrh

    Myrrh MDL Expert

    Nov 26, 2008
    1,401
    500
    60
    You missed my point which was that there is always an alternate way to get what you need without stealing. Find someone who is generous and will give it voluntarily. Go to Chick-fil-A for example. Their corporate policy is that anyone who is hungry and can't afford to eat there eats for free.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  12. timesurfer

    timesurfer MDL Developer

    Nov 22, 2009
    8,527
    4,068
    270
    #12 timesurfer, Oct 23, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2013
    (OP)
    Always an alternative way :eek:...lol

    I don't think so...

    Your options for the hungry sound more like an hollywood X-mas movie designed to falsely raise up the hearts of the many that there's a great spirit of helpfulness in the world but reality is it's a fantasy that a generous person will always be there to help when one is sick and needs nourishment especially concerning children health at that vulnerable age

    But this an discussion on ethics and society is far from ethically composed and managed while covering all the bases
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  13. RawData

    RawData MDL Member

    Mar 4, 2008
    223
    30
    10
    I can understand why someone steals something when desperately needed (like stealing food when starving), but I don't approve it. There is a difference between understanding and approving. Stealing is always stealing, no matter the reason for it. The main thing about stealing is that it physically takes something away from someone else, without any kind of compensation.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  14. timesurfer

    timesurfer MDL Developer

    Nov 22, 2009
    8,527
    4,068
    270
    Let's use absolute logic instead of logic that is flawed and partial :worthy:

    Stealing it relative to what is owned. Nothing is truly one's except one's person and personal space. Most lands are inherently indiginous lands but stolen by those with superior threat and murderous ways. So who is truly stealing?

    God gives this entire planet so all his children can be in pursuit of happyness and multiply but a few take it by force and rule over 99% and we b#%ch about being stolen from. What hypocrites we are indeed!

    We must take back our inheritance of deciding what is right and what is wrong to the individual!

    Approval can be be based off of those who do bad deeds and rule over others without compassion and intelligence!

    So to the ignorant, stealing is relative to the notion that currently all is stolen given all the world should be shared and distributed evenly to all people, whether old, parents or children

    The time of slave masters is ending!!!

    So ultimately the "compensation" is being kept from the meek and those who need and who in gods loving will should be taken care of

    Can anyone here with hearts functioning correctly truly claim the world and keep it for themselves and want validation for being good

    Nope!!!!

    You reap what you sow when your inheritance of your defense of territory and acquiring of material goods is greater than governing all people with equal resources and equal respect and love...

    Grow up people and stop being Juvenal delinquents

    Every person you will meet tomorrow is someone's else's child and has value and the same value as your children...

    No one is above in value of another

    Thinking so is sadistic and inhumane :mad:
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  15. RawData

    RawData MDL Member

    Mar 4, 2008
    223
    30
    10
    I should have kept my mouth shut and stay away from these overly serious discussions. o_O

    I'll take my quick exit with this:
    Vogons gave me a good deal, so your personal space (as "The Galactic Center") is not yours any more. You owe me a rent... :D
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  16. alicepattinson

    alicepattinson MDL Member

    Jan 29, 2013
    175
    32
    10
    Am I think it's still stealing :) small or big
     
  17. R29k

    R29k MDL GLaDOS

    Feb 13, 2011
    4,675
    4,276
    150
    You can have the Galactic Center but stay out of my Galaxy.
     
  18. Yen

    Yen Admin
    Staff Member

    May 6, 2007
    11,172
    10,931
    340
    Stealing has clear definitions. And if those are met it IS stealing. The question is how somebody does react on stealing.
    To me nobody needs to steal. A simple question: Can I have this? And it is no stealing any more...the willing to share something one needs obviously more than me. The wisdom that actually nothing really belongs to 'me'....'sacrifice' is a good practise in life.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  19. oldsh_t

    oldsh_t MDL Expert

    Dec 23, 2009
    1,012
    479
    60
    No I don't think they will get any better treatment, and that is the way it should be! Stealing is stealing and it is against the law. The law is not broken up into age groups. But like I said if I saw some old person stealing I would not report them. I don't know their situation, and I could not live with myself if I found out they really needed what they took.
    Hell I may be there some day myself:eek:
     
  20. R29k

    R29k MDL GLaDOS

    Feb 13, 2011
    4,675
    4,276
    150
    Stealing is ultimately dependent on the reaction from the offended party. If you define stealing by strict rules then you have many problems.
    Also "needs" are food, clothing and shelter, if you come home one day and find a hobo sitting in your living room because he was freezing in the snow outside, what do you do?