LTSB/LTSC and Visual Studio

Discussion in 'Windows 10' started by 5MpFnV45, Nov 4, 2019.

  1. 5MpFnV45

    5MpFnV45 MDL Novice

    Aug 4, 2015
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    Hello,

    2 years ago I switched to Win10 2016 LTSB and installed Visual Studio Community 2017. Microsoft says that VS 2017 and 2019 are not supported on LTSC/LTSB. I just discovered this limitation a few weeks ago about VS 2019, and later about VS2017. I didn't pay attention when installing VS2017 ! And everything worked flawlessly, including VS updates...

    Am I alone ? What does mean "unsupported" about Win10 LTSB/LTSC ? Does it mean that VS installer should refuse to run, or that VS will not work, or that MS will not offer aftermarket support (I don't care !)

    Having evreything working great, I don't know if I could/shoud upgrade to LTSC 2018 or 2019 + Visual Studio 2019, or keep my computer as is (LTSB 2016 + VS 2017).

    Any thougths ?
     
  2. bfoos

    bfoos MDL Guide Dog

    Jun 15, 2008
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    VS 2017 and 2019 both run fine on 1809 which LTSC 2019 is so I see no reason why it wouldn't work. As long as it doesn't refuse to install, which it shouldn't.
     
  3. 5MpFnV45

    5MpFnV45 MDL Novice

    Aug 4, 2015
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    This is really weird...

    Microsoft says :

    "Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC edition, Windows 10 S and Windows 10 Team Edition are not supported for development. You may use Visual Studio 2019 to build apps that run on Windows 10 LTSC, Windows 10 S and Windows 10 Team Edition.". They say that such OS'es can be used for remode developping (reminds me the goot old times with WinCE !). (same about 2017)

    I have too few posts to be allowed to post a link. But you will easily find the page on related MS website.

    What is not supported ??? I updated VS 2017 Community today without a problem (I usullay block everything with the FW, paranoid mode)

    I will install OS and devtools on a spare SSD and let the community informed when I have time to do that. If I remember how to create the LTSC localized ISO with the differential file... (last time was 2-3 years ago)
     
  4. 5MpFnV45

    5MpFnV45 MDL Novice

    Aug 4, 2015
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    Yes, it is this link.
    Not sure it is licensing related... On MS website, I found this (by a MS tech) :

    "Application support: With each Semi-Annual Channel release following an LTSC release, there is a growing gap in APIs and functionality between the current Windows API in use by most all devices, and previous LTSC releases. Many ISVs do not support LTSC editions for their applications, as they want their applications to use the latest innovation and capabilities to give users the best experience. This is the case with Office ProPlus, which does not support Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC releases as it relies on Windows 10 feature updates and the Semi-Annual Channel to deliver the best user experience with the latest capabilities"

    Seems to be API related...

    "Many ISVs do not support LTSC" is funny ! What ISV will adopt a new API as soon as it is available ??? Many ISV still support Win7, and some even support WinXP and 2000. Only MS can (and will ?) do that. Every 6 month ? Seriously ?

    If Visual Studio or Office or whatever app is updated and uses new APIs/features that come with the semi annual chanel, there will be a problem ! This how I now understand things.

    And according to your second link, I understand that MS wants data, and found a way to force companies to use another chanel for their OS'es and apps.

    As I wrote in my 1st post, my freshly updated VSC2017 runs flawlessly on LTSB2016 (last updated 6 months ago or so), but I'm far from using every VS feature (who does ?) ! It's been a couple of years since I didn't code with Win32 API and MFC. Yesterday, I generated a skeleton MFC app that compiled and ran fine, as it always did since the Visual C++ 1.0 1st beta, 25+ years ago. (now, I mostly use this IDE for microcontrolers using plugins, and never have a problem).

    I'm currently testing a basic VS 2019 Community installation on a VM with 1903 LTSC. The installer didn't care. No warnings. Wait and see (installation is pretty long with only 1-2MB/s, currently 40% after 1 hour).

    I know nothing about Win10 SAC (have to learn, and there's so much information and acronyms here that it makes things difficult for non english speaking persons !). I see no problem with SAC if it's not bloated : I hate Cortana on my Surface Pro, even deactivated (O&O + paranoid firewall + some services deactivated).
     
  5. bfoos

    bfoos MDL Guide Dog

    Jun 15, 2008
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    As I said, LTSC 2019 is based upon 1809 17763.xx which is still fully supported by MS. So VS 2017/19 will work fine. It's only licensing issues at play here and if you can live with it, cool. Satya Nadella isn't going to kick your door in and scream at you for compiling an app on LTSC.
     
  6. 3zero3

    3zero3 MDL Senior Member

    Apr 26, 2012
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    There is no 1903 LTSC.
     
  7. 5MpFnV45

    5MpFnV45 MDL Novice

    Aug 4, 2015
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    #8 5MpFnV45, Nov 5, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2019
    (OP)
    He could easily. Just add some feature used by a new VS (or Office if you use it), and that does not come with LTSC (security) updates. You're done. Something as simple as a magical GUI control with a new API. Just a new Button or Static class . Not necessarily one you use for your developments, but one that a MS app new version/update uses. You're done. This happened since the very begining at each and every new Windows version (I started Windows coding with Win3.0, and every version came with new APIs : 3.0 3.1 NT 2000 XP Vista and so on).

    But I agree with you. They have no interest upsetting large companies !

    [EDIT] better do a disk image before any update, app or OS
     
  8. 5MpFnV45

    5MpFnV45 MDL Novice

    Aug 4, 2015
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    #9 5MpFnV45, Nov 5, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2019
    (OP)
    @3zero3

    I meant 1809 updated 1902. My bad !

    [EDIT] currently testing 10.0.17763.316

    (I'm lost in all these versions, updates and acronyms. Things were much simpler, even 3 years ago !)
     
  9. bfoos

    bfoos MDL Guide Dog

    Jun 15, 2008
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    Seriously man you are overthinking and thus over complicating this non-issue. Install it, if it works, great! Move along and have a nice day.
     
  10. Tiger-1

    Tiger-1 MDL Guru

    Oct 18, 2014
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    Attached Files:

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  11. Enthousiast

    Enthousiast MDL Tester

    Oct 30, 2009
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    Till the next LTSC, somewhere, iirc @abbodi1406 posted info about office on ltsc.
     
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  12. Tiger-1

    Tiger-1 MDL Guru

    Oct 18, 2014
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    right after I make search
     
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  13. 5MpFnV45

    5MpFnV45 MDL Novice

    Aug 4, 2015
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  14. BAU

    BAU MDL Senior Member

    Feb 10, 2009
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    It's just pure luck most stuff works on LTSC, but it might change in the future.
    LTSB was also quite good at first, and look at it now 5 major releases later - you're left out when it comes to latest cpu / motherboards / gpus, you're left out when it comes to some games and professional apps, you're still left out when it comes to compatibility with some Bluetooth headsets / wireless displays / atmos etc. - and when you run it on a beefier machine it definitely feels much slower than even the most bloated latest release

    Many big game studios don't bother about LTSx editions for two reasons:
    1 - follow the money - the largest number of customers will be on the latest OS version, not on a niche LTSx release, with fixed outdated hardware support by design and with a high likelihood of being pirated..
    2 - stay away from API limitations and high maintenance - much more effective to reply to bug reports with a "use a supported OS" than waste time and efforts on developing alternative code paths and workarounds (and why would I as a dev work to fix a bug caused by your poorly hacked store patch? pff)

    New DirectX 12 Features sells games for 44.99$, not compatibility with windows xp..
     
  15. AndyMutz

    AndyMutz MDL Member

    Jun 30, 2011
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    I am still on LTSB 2016 on my main rig and every program and game I use still works fine :)
    but yes, the probability of encountering incompatible software or hardware is definitely higher on LTSx releases.

    -andy-
     
  16. Feniksrising

    Feniksrising MDL Member

    Nov 27, 2016
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    It just means MS isn't liable if anything goes wrong.
     
  17. rayleigh_otter

    rayleigh_otter MDL Expert

    Aug 8, 2018
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    and if they are try fighting it.