Discussion in 'Windows 8' started by TheSkaffer, Aug 22, 2011.
You need to login to view this posts content.
This article contains no real info and there is no investigation made.
"With the latest Windows 8 build (8064) that has been delivered to Intel, it’s clear that the company is taking strides to make sure that its upcoming OS isn’t quit so easy to pirate."
What is clear and to whom?
The quality of this article makes me say that the author has no clue at all about activation. He doesn't address the current method. And I am sure he don't know anything about OA3.0.
Hmm, and if you guys were to write a similar article?
Personally, I wouldn't. Not unless I had solid evidence to support it. Otherwise it does more harm than good
Having said that what do you think Yen, will there be a crack for Windows 8 as soon as it releases or might take time (As no software till date is uncrackable) or MS will hit hard on piracy with Win 8 ?
If OEM Activation is kind of the same mechanic als the current one, then W8 will be "cracked" when OEM Hardware is released so ppl dump Slic 2.2/3.0 whateer they will call it and extract der cert and key
But Microsoft could make this alot harder, for example: SLP keys are like MAK ones, (they wont show up as valid key in registry), they also could Encrypt the Cert with a hash of the SLP key and the hardware ID
= alot harder to get valid SLP Key/Cert ~(but this probably won't happen)~
Windows piracy is a two edged sword, its billion of revenue lost for microsoft, but more ppl using windows = more market share = higher stocks
Yup that's right..MS would like to see Windows on every possible system and get more market share as you said so MS killing piracy would be like putting axe on its own feet..but Then MS will try pretend as though its making piracy harder but on the other hand try to be little tolerant towards pirates
I figured the best measure they could take against OEM activation is to make it so you needed something a little harder to do than a "BIOS Marker". Add a tiny little chip to your MB that is cheap to make that has some kind of means to ID the machine as OEM. Don't see the OEMs liking that, as cheap chips X millions of PCs + time = lots of wasted time and money, and they want it stupid simple. Plus someone could probably write a driver that emulates the chip based off a chip disassembly/dump. The OEM's want something that will let one image activate all classes of their SLIC, and as long as MS gives them that then getting that image will most likely give out their stuff. Deep down I feel they want people pirating windows as it keeps people from going Linux to save buying Windows. Hardly anyone buys windows anyway, everyone I know gets it with their OEM PC, and either gets me to upgrade them or upgrade their OS via a new PC. MS gets paid by OEMs and all other customers that matter buy VL in massive quantities or the licenses they install for small OEMs (who pass the cost to the customer).
Simply put any possible loss from piracy (and you can't assume unhackability = more sales, I'd never be able to drop $400 for Ultimate, my last PC cost less.) vs pissing off and inconveniencing their big OEM and VL customers just really gives little gain (their WGA/WAT is targeted at the user who DLs a torrent that is precracked or the shady OEM that installs cracks and calls it genuine, these are the people who MS want to reach and sell to, they know we'll just beat the WAT update or just not install it in the first place). Unhackable likely means a PITA activation for all. I tried to activate my Dad's PC with a never used MSDN key I got through AA. Activation choked over the Wifi I used and took an hour (did this on the road), then it said it wasn't genuine a week later. I just daz loadered the crap until HP was nice enough to give that PC a BIOS update download to turn the built in SLIC 2.0 to 2.1, meaning I could cut out the loader there (boot grldr) and just go cert+key.
If MS really does kill off OEM I see KMS taking over windows like it has in office (they removed all reliable forms of permanent activation, you can't count on a MAK since they are few and die fast, could be blocked if MS cared enough, and we no longer have VL=instant activation like 2007 Enterprise). Given that we have local servers, skilled RE people should be able to figure out how to make a new emulator if MS change KMS protocol. They can't make KMS talk to MS as a requirement as that defeats the point of KMS (local activation, no need for MS server, etc). I see Ms sticking with KMS as since Vista MS has built a nce activation system that is similar across all products, and all corporate setups/tools are built around that. Why make them setup KMS servers (knowing 99% skipped vista and many skipped 7 or are still going to 7), just to change VL activation to a different type that isn't KMS. KMS allows companies to simple add a new code to their KMS hosts to support new OS/Office.
This would likely concentrate everyone into Enterprise instead of the much preferred Ultimate, something I don't want to happen.
The team of the MDL mainsite is a different one. http://www.mydigitallife.net/ .
MDL is known to have brief articles with facts only. To guess is not a way there. We here try to keep MDL to be a place with knowledge and at w8 forum a place where you can guess.
I personally don't like to read rumors and I am careful when reading 'news'. We have real sources about w8 and we have members which are also at bbs.pcbeta.com.
There also was a good cooperation with Chinese forums when OA2.0 came out and still is regarding biosmods and tools.
But I can write my thoughts. I don't give a statement about how easy or how difficult w8 will be to 'pirate'.
I think it will be harder. I think so because they enhanced OEM activation compared to OA1.0 So they will at OA3.0
To me it's true that there will be again a special activation method for OEMs. OA3.0 (OEM Activation version 3.0).
M$ is very dependant on the OEMs, especially to Dell, Intel and Lenovo. In fact they have great power and can tell to M$ what they want to have. Also at OS developing (features)
The OEMs need a cheap and easy to apply licensing method. They want to sell exactly the same hardware one time licensed and one time with free OS. They want flexibility. They have to apply the licenses, but the licensing model comes from M$. The bioses come from the OEMs. So there must be an agreement which both satisfies.
So I exclude a hardware licensing chip. I also think if they had planned to create one, there would be news already about since you need to cooperate with mainboard manufacturers to define hardware specifications for the chip.
M$ could ditch OEM_SLP and only use OEM_COA, which means there is no more activation against the bioschip, but online.
But I don't think so, this means there would be no more offline activation method left.
I wrote it already many months before (I called it SLP3.0), there is an easy way to M$ to prevent biosmodding.
Just to digitally sign the bios or a special area of the bios only. Then you would need the signing tool. The verification algorithm of the signature can almost never be found out.
So then you would need to focus on the KMS activation
And yes there is another aspect as well. What would happen if M$ creates a very good protection?
I think more people would look for an alternative OS.
I never had used Linux so far. It's (was) not user friendly.
But times are changing. Also for M$. The netbook market will disappear, the tablet and smart phone market explodes.
M$ is strong at clients and home PCs. They are weak at server, mobile phones and tablets.
Android is based on Linux. Router for home use are running Linux. PVR's are running Linux. Mediaserver are running Linux
At home I have three devices running Linux (Anroid phone, PVR, router). My PC here runs XP, the other runs w7. It also runs Linux in Oracle virtual box.
I have started to use Linux. I have started to write scripts since I want to modify my phone. Android is responsible for that I'm starting to learn about Linux.
I guess I am not the only one.....
Linux is coming, silently in different kinds.
So again the question: Does M$ want to create a strong protection? Would they be happy if nobody pirates their OS?
I hope Apple and M$ will lose a lot of market share. And one day my dream come true. Open source OS for everybody's needs. A big community developing. A community like the Android community.
+1 Yen, I hope Apple and M$ will lose a lot of market share. And one day my dream come true. Open source OS for everybody's needs. Exactly what this world needs!
Even a chip can be thwarted with device emulation. Makes it harder yes, but not impossible.
If MS,was less arrogant and admit,compensate the "flop" that was Vista or hasta la Vista sick puppy,then drop the prices of MS-OS then I might
think of not using "Reverse Engineering" allias Pirating or what ever.
What else is left for any crafty geek or guru,try it is not?.
By the way,does MS ever told us of any built in OS including antivirus,antimalware,anti,anti,never,a la Apple,eh,oh,ah,uh,oops,yes different
arquitecture,I believe the day that MS eats humble pie,I may think that pigs fly.
Wasn't there a blog post a while ago from a Microsoftie saying they didn't care about the likes of us pirating the odd copy but those who sell pirated stuff was their concern.
Pretty much their stance. Their whole Genuine program targets people who bought fake/hacked crap. They then say they fix 70 cracks with WAT and not a single MDL solution was among them (well, maybe RemoveWAT). People sell stuff with BIE ISO stuff (which is crap), which fails validation. Someone who loadered their own system will just ask for a fixed loader if they get flagged and DL that instead of dropping $400 on that copy of ultimate because MS begged them to.
Nothing on MS site talks about people who crack their own copy, only about turning in people who sold cracked copies and getting a discount license from MS.
PS: I really don't think MS wants to run the arms race with people who want their copy cracked/bypassed. Get a little experience with cracked software and you know to be careful before updating, lest your copy become a crippled piece of nagware when you need it most.
I seriously doubt it will be anywhere near as easily hacked as Windows 7. This is my opinion and thats what forums are about. There are many here who already agree.
I can only hope it's possible but I'm pretty sure Msoft has a few tricks left.
Open source isn't really answer when it comes to OS. For power users etc its fine, but Linux just has too many variables and not as easy to set up as other OS's. Even with the 'easier' versions, there are too many variations between the different options.
The only real solution to this is to have one version, but then that somewhat defeats the purpose! I'm not saying that Linux is at all bad or anything, just you need some uniformity, and not so many choices to confuse the 'ordinary' person
Has anyone here heard of the SKA telescope? the amount of data passing to that will be equal to all the worlds current internet traffic (bittorrenting etc included), and will require a supercomputer so fast it hasn't been invented yet. Wonder what OS base they'll use for that?! - it may be a completely new one, who knows? and who knows whether that will funnel down to the typical user late as a uniform 'open source' OS?
Windows 8 won't be completely un-activable via a loader etc, just be harder. They can't make it impossible for bulk activation. There is some ways they can get around that, which I won't mention to give them ideas but even those are workaroundable with programming knowledge (not easy though). To staive off activation bypassing, and to get people to switch over to the new versons quicker, the easiest thing to do is just to sell it for a more reasonable cost. At the moment, the cost is a little high for a lot of people to even contemplate it.
Windows does have too many versions which just increases costs. x86 in Windows 7 should never have been an option, and definitely not in Windows 8! also instead of having Windows N as a separate printing, it should all be part of the one disk. Simplty if in a country affected by that ruling, and the country location is selected as one of those, then the ballots appear. If you choose IE, IE is already there to install without downloading. It doesn't break the court ruling and does provide some (very small) cost benefit.
Windows 'Home Basic' and 'Starter' should be just one product, Windows Home Premium/Pro should be one product and Enterprise/Ultimate should be one product... although its pretty much like that now it does simplify things.
If the SLIC hack won't work anymore, there is always the option to delete the activation files. No activation files --> no activation.
I don't remember where, because it was a long long time ago. But I read a quote from Bill Gates that said something like: "Piracy make us competitive against Linux", refering to the consumer market.
That is easily fixed by refusing to do anything if that is broken. However MS isn't that draconian to do such a thing, but it could be done. That or put some of the stuff in files you can't delete. This kind of trick is a really sloppy solution and the reason why the only MDL solutions I'm aware of that have crapped out do this kind of thing.
I don't see OEM going anywhere, but there will still be KMS, Phone MAK leaks (which I consider not a real solution, but it gets some people what they want), and trial reset (can't imagine it being made impossible to TR, all the AV that are otherwise uncracked have gone this method, and MS don't like to play hardball like some AV makers), before anyone has to think about that. The cloud thing could make licensing hard to TR, but I imagine that one could deactivate cloud access to some MS stuff (I could see MS offering cloud services to legit users like backup, but doing extra license checks to use those services, like storing activation info).
Another thing is Windows 8 is the worst time for a crackdown. MS said it would be there "largest bet". They want to get into the tablet market. MS has been trying to make tablets work for years, but only now has it really caught on, and MS is really weak in that market (other than the iPad and webOS based HP TouchPad, all tablets I've seen have been Android based). The last thing they want to do when trying to get into a new market, one where they don't have the numbers on their side, is to start now all of a sudden churn out an uncrackable OS. Best thing to do would make Win 8 get firmly established as a tablet OS and then try harder with Win 9.