Moderation and censorship at virtual forums. [Discussion]

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by Garp _McGarpington, Apr 23, 2020.

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  1. Garp _McGarpington

    Garp _McGarpington MDL Novice

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    #1 Garp _McGarpington, Apr 23, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2020
    https://time.com/5738401/xinjiang-uighur-muslim-camps-china-cables/

    You (or someone else) deleted at least one of my posts. That's censorship. Denying censorship has taken place is another form of censorship. Denying that censorship is censorship is also a form of censorship. Trying to describe censorship as something other than censorship, is a form of censorship. Additionally, it demonizes the person that is being censored. Instead of allowing the "audience" to make their own decision based on what the censored person has posted, the censor alleges that they violated some rule or other, making them a "rule breaker" and therefore bad. That's called "demonization" and typically it is done to undermine the censored person's credibility, and persuade the audience to ignore and/or deride them. Such as the member here that earlier called me an "idiot". Once authority has demonized a censored person, it gives permission to everyone else that disagrees with them to continue the demonization process, which then justifies the earlier censorship.

    This is how totalitarian regimes take, and maintain power, so that they can do things like loose deadly viruses on the world without consequence.
     
  2. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    #2 Yen, Apr 23, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2020
    @Garp _McGarpington

    My thoughts:

    The operator of a forum is responsible and accountable for the contents that have been posted.
    At registration to each person there is presented the forums rules on which everybody has to agree to complete registration.
    One of those rules is 3.7 We reserve the right to delete, alter, change or lock a post....

    Also the operator has the right to exclude members from the forums.
    This applies even more when the contents are in violation of applicable laws/rights. (Presumption of innocence and slander).


    These points all together comprise the virtual householder's rights.
    The applied measure is moderation.
    And if there is a post that should be moderated (like an insult etc) there is the report post function

    Forums are private areas which require agreement to private rules at registration. By doing that one excludes voluntarily a right of freedom of expression and hence later one cannot speak of a censorship.
    What you address as censorship and compare to is the restriction of freedom of expression by government.


    The basic right of freedom of expression is a basic right that protects one from the government in the sense that the government must not restrict one's right of freedom of expression.

    Feel free to discuss.
    And post your ideas how moderation of a virtual forum and 'censorship' can go together.

    And what is the 'right' way to deal with off topic contents / contents that do violate announced private rules.
     
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  3. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

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    @Yen: IMHO, your post should be pinned so that -every- new member reads it.

    The Admins and MODS of MDL are the most fair, open minded people that I've ever encountered.
    If they delete or edit a post, there's usually a darn good reason for it.

    'Nuff said.
     
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  4. Mr.X

    Mr.X MDL Guru

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    I agree, fully. I feel the same since ages.
    Other forums staff are sensitive schoolgirls reacting like they're being molested or harassed by a perv.
     
  5. Joe C

    Joe C MDL Guru

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    Not the first time my posts have been edited and I'm sure it won't be the last as long as I go off topic on any thread, or make a mean statement about someone. It's really just that simple. I just "get over it" and go on. no problem.
     
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  6. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    I had moved Garp's post out of the COVID-19 thread, because it is off topic there. (besides of the questionable comparison).
    A virtual forum such as MDL is run by certain people and by that it gets an own personality.

    And different members with different personalities are joining....

    We have to deal with (what I would call) censorship. DMCA complaints and how they are enforced. (up to changing DNS by authorities. AKA domain seizure).

    It is a huge learning process. But today I'd say we do a good job. No complaints last year until today.

    The matter moderation is important to me because I actually respect anybody's post at first place.
    Anyway the forums need to be organized and an own idea how to and what belongs to what and what has no place somewhere / what is against the rules has to be realized.
    It's an everyday challenge. But I love to be here. :)

    It would be a dared experiment to set up a forum and let it run without any team that's behind. :)
     
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  7. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    Well, if that is the case how about removing ALL posts which are involved in a "controversy" and not just some posts which react to something rather objectionable?!?

    There certainly is censorship and it is - Human! I.e. not exactly non-objectionable, as in done equally from the same principles towards all posts...

    For instance, I was responding to some nonsense about race and my post which was detailed and definitively proved the "objector" didn't know what he was talking about and yet mine was removed and his was left standing.... Seriously?!?

    I have a proposal: if you are about to remove a post - why not ask the person for clarification first, then see if anything needs adding to make it more transparent etc. and then the issues could be debated further if necessary and not use a bloody 50 pound smasher to crack open a nut...
     
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  8. Joe C

    Joe C MDL Guru

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    Your not the only member that had their post removed in that thread...
    get over it, it's just a post on a forum. In the world scene....we are not that important.
     
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  9. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

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    @gorski: I have an idea...How about you start your own forum and then you can set it up however you want.

    Their forum...their rules.

    Either respect their rules or hit the road.

    P.S: If you were a member of any forum that I was running, I would have banned you already.
     
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  10. ipx

    ipx MDL Addicted

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    @Yen

    since you started this topic about moderation am gonna bring this to your notice.

    i had reported this post :

    https://forums.mydigitallife.net/threads/discussion-about-coronavirus.81224/page-4#post-1584532

    this was said for @case-sensitive to be precise for his mother.

    the post still exists. not sure if it was you or someone else from admin but the post was allowed.

    am surprised that this is coming from @Joe C 60+ years of age & worldly wise. the post was also liked by @nodnar

    i would still ask you to remove that post as it outright offensive & hitting below the belt.

    your call.
     
  11. ipx

    ipx MDL Addicted

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    @Joe C

    allow me to jog your memory, this was posted by @case-sensitive :

    you just picked on the last line of the post & replied this :

    are you trying to feign ignorance ?
     
  12. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    Joe, you are the least likely person to offer any advice to anyone on anything to do with any kind of moral high ground. Your posts are frequently just downright aggressive, crude, rude, arrogant to the bone, as if you and your conservative lot are the sole owners of common sense. They are also deliberately short, offering no explanations, no rational argumentation but are strictly personal, aggressive and calculated to be offensive and nothing else! I do not start like that with anyone! But I do retaliate when mean and nasty characters do that to me, sure! Is that the same? It sure as Hell isn't but the likes of you throw a stone and run, hide behind a crowd, behind numbers, others like you who come with the same agenda, with the same "values"... Makes me wanna vomit! Time and time again this kind of mobbing keeps happening here!

    In this case, specifically: after the post I carefully worded and argued rationally, you posted just to be abusive and offensive, offering no arguments of any kind. That is what I call WEAK!!! A COWARD!!! So kindly pi&& off with your "sound advice"!!! You and a few others here know nothing else but to jump on a bandwagon and mob a person hiding behind a crowd, with your herd mentality! It's not the first time you are behaving like an a-hole!

    I did not start any racist garbage, I can NOT post ANY such nonsense, as I am not a racist by any stretch of imagination - QUITE THE OPPOSITE!!! I reacted rationally to some nonsense about which way racism is bent and I rationally argued against it. Others have agreed and argued from other, similar grounds that what that person (Bat1) was talking is completely uniformed nonsense but oh no... Because he is black and I am white - somehow, by some magic, he must be right and I must be wrong! FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!! Whites can not be discriminated against, they can't know what discrimination is and he must by default, no matter how crass and ill-informed his posts are - he MUST be right because he is black. Right, are Jews "white" or "black"? I bet a few of those people could tell him about discrimination. Some 30 million Slavs disappeared during WWII as "less worthy" and hence "of lesser standing" in Nazi-Fascist eyes. In the UK, not so long ago, one could see pub signs saying "No dogs and the Irish". I could go on but what's the point?!? Bat1 MUST be right when he claims that he MUST know more about this COMPLEX PHENOMENON than me, who studied the issues for decades, who experienced it first hand, who exchanged the stories with groups of people like myself, who were by definition on the bottom of the social scale, at the receiving end of "institutional racism", as a UK Commission charged with investigating the phenomenon in the UK has called it!

    I don't care who is from which country, of which parentage, what religion, as I am a universalist! To me there is only one race: Human race. All else is BS! In that spirit, I only care about arguments, rational, informed arguments. But oh no... And there were people applauding this absolute nonsense! "Oh, yeah, as if (gorski) could possibly know this, he is white, you are way superior when it comes to understanding racism and where it comes from, how it is to be understood" and so on. Imagine somebody seriously claiming that x group is by definition more informed on any subject just because they are x. Seriously? Anyone heard of Nazis? Because that is that sort of thinking. Inverted - but the same kind of thinking!!!!! Has Corona eaten everyone's brains completely?!?

    Last time I checked there are nationalists, xenophobes, genocidal maniacs and racists on all continents, in all countries, so WTH?!?

    Deleting a universalist post like mine, while leaving all that particularistic nonsense to stand is seriously offensive!!!

    This is what I call BAD CENSORSHIP because it is superficial and UNTHINKING!!!
     
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  13. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    #13 gorski, Apr 24, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2020
    Damn straight!!! And it ain't the first time!!! It's ABOMINABLE BEHAVIOUR!!!! And he constantly does this, wherever he can!!! And he's not the only one! There is a whole group of nasty right-wing "brains" who keep doing this - one provokes, the other attacks, then before you know it, THEY complain when somebody returns the favour - and then everyone forgets who started it and how, no one wants to go into details and WRONG People get penalised and censored. Scandalous!!!
     
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  14. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    On my forums there wasn't, there isn't and there never will be any space for nasty right wingers of any kind, plus their enablers (like you now)! All such "geniuses" and their "compassless" enablers get to know the consequences of any such nonsense!
     
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  15. ipx

    ipx MDL Addicted

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    @gorski

    not sure if you saw it but right after my post, post #10 in this thread @Joe C made a post trying to shun all knowledge of his misdemeanor but that post seems to have magically disappeared.

    @Joe C

    that was so brave of you.
     
  16. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    #16 gorski, Apr 24, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2020
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  17. Joe C

    Joe C MDL Guru

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    #17 Joe C, Apr 24, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2020
    It's was only a reply to a very insensitive post, If you agreed with that post, then I feel the same towards you also.
    If anything gorski posts about me mattered, I would reply....
    Obviously I don't care about gorski or what his views are, it is easy to ignore a lot of blabber.
     
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  18. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    That's really well caught and documented by you! I have seen such behaviour on this forum many times and Joe was always on the wrong side of the debate, so I am not surprised.

    I mean, I even had to put up a fight with some prominent coders here who were neo-Nazi, White supremacist pro-eugenics barstewards and similar "appeasement" was to be seen on the forum!

    NO to that! Enough BS! One must stand up for the best principles Humanity has on offer! And the kind of behaviour him and nodnar, plus some of their enablers are doing, is just WRONG and must be opposed!!!

    I have reported these posts before I saw this thread. I was right and a big thank you to anyone standing up and being counted! It's high time!!!

    To clarify: I don't have a problem when somebody is un- or ill-informed but when they want to set the standards regardless of what they know, how much they have studied etc. - oh, well...

    As a principle: I wouldn't remove their posts but I would seriously and rationally argue against their musings! And I would return their insults with interest - but well grounded (and that is when they go nuts and start crying their eyes out to the admin, as if they are the poor offended side, when in fact they started it, as a rule and they are actually rubbing their nasty little hands behind their backs, wickedly laughing...)! Call me Old Testament but...
     
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  19. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    So much from somebody with a "moral high ground"...:rolleyes:
     
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  20. ipx

    ipx MDL Addicted

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    if an mdl member makes an insensitive post you report that post, why drag his / her mother in to it ?

    this is what you wrote for @case-sensitive :

    are you saying the same for me as well ?