Nested Virtualization on Client Hyper-V (Windows Insider Preview Build 10.0.10565)

Discussion in 'Virtualization' started by GHeimnis, Oct 14, 2015.

  1. GHeimnis

    GHeimnis MDL Member

    Jun 18, 2011
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    #1 GHeimnis, Oct 14, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2015
  2. eemuler

    eemuler MDL Member

    Jul 31, 2015
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    Thanks. That's the only thing in this build that is of any interest to me. :tasty:
     
  3. Mansome

    Mansome MDL Novice

    Mar 25, 2015
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    So in other words virtual machine inception movie?
     
  4. Jacoub

    Jacoub MDL Junior Member

    Aug 14, 2011
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    I was able to run nested Hyper-V. The Host was Windows 10 Pro 10240 x64. Using VMWare Workstation 12 Pro. On CPU settings enabled Both "Virtualize Intel VT-x/EPT or AMD-V/RVI" & "Virtualize CPU Performance counter". Installed 10565 & Inside installed the same 10565


    Regards
     
  5. kelorgo

    kelorgo MDL Addicted

    Oct 29, 2012
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    Your success has nothing to do with the new capabilities in build 10565. Your outer VM is running in VMware Workstation, not Hyper-V. VMware Workstation has had the ability for nested hardware virtualization for a long time now (although it's an unsupported feature).

    What's new in build 10565 is the ability to run Hyper-V in Hyper-V, different from what you did.
     
  6. T-S

    T-S MDL Guru

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    Not just the VMware, also Virtualbox.

    I have a test VMware ESX machine installed inside Virtualbox.
     
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  7. Jacoub

    Jacoub MDL Junior Member

    Aug 14, 2011
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    no sweaty because the same setup failed to nest build 10240 nor server 2016 10514.0.150808-1529.
    Earlier I was able to nest using ESXi then Microsoft Hyper-V Server
     
  8. kelorgo

    kelorgo MDL Addicted

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    I don't know what your setup is, but VirtualBox most definitely does NOT support nested hardware virtualization, which is what the discussion is all about here.
     
  9. Jacoub

    Jacoub MDL Junior Member

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    #10 Jacoub, Oct 16, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2015
    That what Microsoft stated both hypervisors to support nested Hyper-V meaning 10565 since it is the only one so far, but since my machine is running 10240 VMWare pro compensated for that
    I even nested 10240 w VMware then 10565 with Vmware inside
    I don't see practical use of VMWare desktop pro nesting but I'm sure it will be very useful once enabled on Server 2016 to test fail-over & other functionalities in testing enviroment
    I was able also to triple nest VMWare desktop but it was very slow & forced 100% CPU Utilization "I'm running Dual Xenon x5670 2.93GHz & 40GB RAM". Please don't try this at home
     
  10. Garbellano

    Garbellano MDL Addicted

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    Nested Virtualization... And the point of this?
     
  11. T-S

    T-S MDL Guru

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    #12 T-S, Oct 16, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2015

    I didn't bother about nitpicking about the definitions, given the requirements of specific CPU extensions to do this I think that isn't completely SW implementation. Anyway it works. And that's enough for me.
     
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  12. kelorgo

    kelorgo MDL Addicted

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    #13 kelorgo, Oct 16, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2015
    Why are you writing about VMware nesting? Some VMware products have supported nested hardware virtualization for a long time, there is nothing new, interesting or relevant about that.

    This news/thread is about Hyper-V nesting, i.e. Hyper-V running as a hypervisor inside a Hyper-V VM. More importantly, it's about Microsoft saying that they will officially support that scenario in production once it's complete and ready. Unlike VMware, where nested virtualization has never been officially supported and at best usable for development.
     
  13. kelorgo

    kelorgo MDL Addicted

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    It's not nitpicking, if you don't understand the distinction between software-based and hardware assisted virtualization, then you are completely missing the point of this news/thread and why it's a big deal.

    Nested software virtualization has always been possible with many different products. ESX running inside VirtualBox does not use hardware virtualization support. It's possible, but not at all interesting or exciting, nor relevant to this thread.
     
  14. T-S

    T-S MDL Guru

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    No, I think you have some small problems reading english

    That's a quote from the opening post

    What is nested virtualization?


    The point is to run a virtual environment inside another.

    That was not possible on hyperview, that was possible on Virtualbox. Period.

    Then if you want to talk about the internals let's thalk about them.

    But that isn't the main point of the news.
     
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  15. Hadron-Curious

    Hadron-Curious MDL Guru

    Jul 4, 2014
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    I think that requires more of your system memory more than 4GB speculated around online. I have issue with that because it slows my system functions down.
     
  16. T-S

    T-S MDL Guru

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    Well, count 2GB for the guest os, another 2GB for the first level, another 2GB for the second level.

    I think 5/6GB are really the minimum.
     
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  17. Jacoub

    Jacoub MDL Junior Member

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    I don't know why u r trying to supervise this thread. Try to nest VMWare on 10240 to discover what you are saying is incorrect. Even if this thread is about Hyper-v it is also relevant. Hence stop responding to my comments. If you find it useless as i can see from your reply don't even read. Neither you nor the people who thanked your comment. This forum is about sharing info. So before acting the person who knows it all try to understand what ther side is saying
    I hope this will be the end of this discussion
     
  18. PaulDesmond

    PaulDesmond MDL Magnet

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    Is my understanding that YOU decide upon thanks given to a comment of a very valued member?
     
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  19. kelorgo

    kelorgo MDL Addicted

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    #20 kelorgo, Oct 18, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2015
    I apologise if I offended, that was not my intention.
    I would like the thread to concentrate on the actual, exciting news and matter at hand. I didn't want it to get sidetracked with irrelevant content. I am not supervising it, I am posting my own reaction to others' posts. I am of the firm belief that I have a very thorough understanding of current virtualisation technologies, including Hyper-V, VMware products and VirtualBox, and their capabilities. I therefore feel justified to react to posts on these topics.
    I am not sure which statement of mine you are referring to as being incorrect, your sentence is ambiguous. I have stated several things (all of which I am very confident are correct).

    I have nested hypervisors in various ways before, including VMware in many scenarios, in Windows 10 build 10240 (and many others), so I know what can and can't be done. It has been possible for a very long time to nest any hypervisor with hardware virtualisation support inside VMware Workstation (and Player). For example, you can enable Hyper-V inside appropriate Windows versions in a VM running inside VMware Workstation, provided that Workstation's settings are set correctly. This includes Windows 10 builds.
    This thread is about a new capability in Hyper-V specifically. Naturally, comparisons to other hypervisors' capabilities are very relevant. However, in my opinion statements about what has been accomplished in the new Windows 10 build in scenarios not involving Hyper-V in Hyper-V are detracting.
    I am happy to do so after this post.
    I wouldn't know it's useless until I have actually read it, would I?
    Doesn't quite mean that I should be talking about today's weather in this thread, does it?
    Actually, I do know an awful lot, and generally pay a lot of attention to what exactly the other side is saying. That's why I am able to respond accurately and in detail. I also have a strong policy of not posting guesses, hunches or other unreliable statements, instead I only try to make factual statements when I am confident that I am correct, based on actual experience.
    Yes it will be. As I did not want detractions in this thread, I will not be contributing further to one, and will post no more as objection to other posts in this thread.