Slimdown10 – turn Windows 10 22H2 or LTSC 2021 into classic/legacy Windows

Discussion in 'Windows 10' started by Deleted member 190847, Feb 15, 2023.

  1. #281 Deleted member 190847, Mar 19, 2023
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 19, 2023
    (OP)
    1. It is still outdated and I am not sure whether it will be properly licensed after such switch. I haven't done legal investigation about it yet.

    2. Cleaning up an image is not an issue. It took me couple of weeks to create the cleaning script, but now it take less than a half of hour to create fully updated and cleaned Win10 22H2 installation media.
    And this media can be used to install already configured/updated Windows on as many desktop computers (or virtual machines) as I need.
    So I see no benefits of LTSC.
     
  2. acer-5100

    acer-5100 MDL Guru

    Dec 8, 2018
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    #282 acer-5100, Mar 19, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2023

    Never been sick with the last update disease, to say better I use always the oldest OS that does what I need and I never regretted that choice in 4 decades.

    Frankly MS used the so called piracy to grow even when used to sell razors, now they care to sell blades, give them few years and they will pay if you install one of their OSes. Corporations are different, but even there they make money with cloud, the OS is just a tool to access the cloud service.

    In short, if MS don't care why should I ?

    Look... I play with reducing and cleaning Images since 2015. It's a great way to improve the knowledge and the skill, but it's anything that works perfectly after 15 days. And the problems posted here by few users are a evidence of that fact. No matter how skilled you are, surprises are around the corner.

    Just take a look to the MSMG thread, and the thousands of messages.

    LTSB is a more pragmatic approach, a good share of the work is already done and done well.

    And to understand how licensing work to provide SKUwitch I spent literally months of work across years, but now you can switch practically any windows to any windows in one command + one reboot. The more one bets the bigger is the prize. ;)
     
  3. KMPLAYER

    KMPLAYER MDL Junior Member

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    #283 KMPLAYER, Mar 19, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2023
    You stated it very well.

    I don't know why you attacked me (I don't mean acer-5100). Why?!

    I asked politely and out of curiosity.

    As for the rest - I saw this script, I asked its author what and how to do, because for myself I expressed a desire to make my own iso with Windows 10, which I could personally test. Until 4 days ago I was permanently on Windows 7 x64.

    Yes, I wanted this script to support an iso that contains two languages, so that the script can handle both languages, so that when the script is run, it asks me which language to choose, and why not both. But... the script doesn't support this option. It would be convenient for me, because when using Windows 10 I will be able to change the language (for example, from my native language - to English or vice versa). In whatever language Windows 10 is installed - I'm stuck with it and I don't have an option to change it to another. So...

    acer-5100, I support your point that software that works and is proven is preferable to use. I use Office 2007 or Office 2010. I have no need for the perversions of the new versions of Office.

    As for the controversy that has arisen here - I've read before that LTSC and LTSB have long-term support, and that Enterpise supposedly doesn't contain the redundant... not to use epithets. In view of the long support provided by Microsoft for Windows 10 Enterprise x64 LTSC 2021, I decided on it, as well as the fact that it is supposedly cleaner and does not contain extraneous things (how much exactly - I don't know). So I stumbled upon this thread with this script and decided to give it a try myself.

    Guys, this is my first four days with Windows 10.

    Don't lash out like that.

    For myself, at least on the desktop part, I made Windows 10 x64 Enterprise LTSC 2021 look like Windows 7 x64. Yes, I am aware that the menus are endlessly jumbled and I will have to look for them (as a recent user of Windows 7 x64 I am used to it and know which menu - where).

    I only digress on the following - yes, wkeller will continue to improve its scripts and provide new versions. BUT... they will be for making a new iso file.

    Here's my question - won't there also be a new script to use for users who have already installed Windows 10 to introduce the new features of the upcoming new versions of the script to the Windows 10 installed?! And as I understand from the controversy so far - the short answer will be - NO.
     
  4. acer-5100

    acer-5100 MDL Guru

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    Sure, and Office starter (just excel and word is completely free) and it works well on W10 (you need the update called click2run2010-kb2986257-fullfile-x86-glb.exe) .

    Just install classic shell / open shell, and the idiotic win10 start will be a forgotten nightmare.

    Since 2015 there are endlessly ways to cleanup w10, just look for decrap.ps1 or decrapper.ps1 and you will find many scripts that do online cleanup rather than ISO modifications.
     
  5. #286 Deleted member 190847, Mar 21, 2023
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 21, 2023
    (OP)
    I am not attacking you, we're just having a dispute.

    Follow the simple rules:
    1. If you agree with me, I do not learn.
    2. If you don't agree with me but you are ignoring me, I do not learn.
    3. If you don't agree with me but we have a dispute, both of us may learn something new.

    So I am not attacking you. I can attack your opinion, but never you personally. That is the line that I will never cross.

    Having said that, I am simply tired. People are over and over asking about LTSB/LTSC. LTSC this, LTSC that.
    Like LTSC would be a Holy Grail or Golden Gift from Microsoft. But it is not and it is surely not a gift.
    Microsoft will do what they can to prevent LTSC (or any other clean Windows) from gaining mass popularity, mainly through licensing therms but not only.

    There are 3 main points that determine good operating system:
    1. The Software.
    2. The Software.
    3. And the Software.

    Because almost anything else could be eirther solved or circumvented. But I can do nothing when I have no software I need. That is the reason (only reason) why I do not use Linux as my main desktop OS.
    I know cases where software vendors sometimes dropped support for old Windows 10 subversions the same way like they dropped support for Windows 8.1 and earlier Windowses.
    Windows 10 LTSC subversions have theoretically 10 years of support life cycle (not LTSC 2021 however), but I am confident that they will die earlier due to lack of proper support from software/hardware vendors.
    Having this in mind, I will never give a penny to Microsoft for LTSC.

    Because these copyrights are not just ethical or theoretical, but they are occasionally enforced in companies.
    You can pay real fines imposed on your company because of copyright infringements. This is real money you can lose (at least in western countries), not theoretical considerations.

    For home users (ie. hobbyists) it looks better, but for companies it definitely does not.

    Yes and that is the reason why Microsoft can give you OS for free (like free upgrade), but with plenty of telemetries, spies and ads included everywhere.
    If you want clean OS, you definitely must pay. And it won't change in foreseeable future, because the company will never give you free lunch.

    Don't confuse forum threads with real life.
    I am modding OSes since Windows XP SP1 era and I think that it does matter how skilled you are.
    Good job is worth its effort without any doubt.

    I have used tens of Windows XP, Windows 7 and now I am starting with Windows 10. All modded and with different kind of specialist software (accounting, automatic, manufacturing, engineering, etc.) running on them.
    And I have usually no issues at all, until these PCs ultimately gets retired completely. I have 10x more issues here on forums than in real life.

    And many of these issues are not related to my mods at all.
    Some people have issues with crashing DISM due to aggressive security software they have installed.
    Is it my fault ? No.
    Some people have issues because they import different sets of debloating scripts without any reflection.
    Some people have issues because they want to use services that I have intentionally disabled (for privacy) from the bare beginning.
    Some people have issues because they use the tool for OS images that it is not intended to service.
    Etc, etc.

    Only some of issues mentioned are really important issues that definitely have to be corrected.

    BTW: People have issues with every single OS on the earth including original Windows, Linux and anything else. And I doubt that it will ever change.

    I am confident that the script will gain maturity, so any later updates will be just cosmetic with negligible importance.
    My previous scripts also went through this way.
     
  6. Tested many of them as early as in 2015. They doesn't meet my needs, sorry.

    For "only" several hundred dollars per license and you must buy at least 5 such licenses that are just upgrade licenses (you need already to have Win10 Pro licenses).
    Surely "wonderful" offer.

    Of course, you can run your business based on pirated software and just ignore all licenses of all software. I wish you good luck with that in European Union ;)
     
  7. #288 Deleted member 190847, Mar 21, 2023
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 21, 2023
    (OP)
    From legal perspective, definitely not.
    What I am doing is just importing registry settings. And these settings are honored because Microsoft wants them to honor.
    Changing settings doesn't violate license for 99%.

    Using LTSC without buying license is plain illegal, and you could have legal issues due to that.
    I do not know a single company owner or director who will agree to intentionally run his business based on unlicensed software.
    This is pure reality here where I live.

    No, I care about my own incomes not their. To be exact I care about the losses I may incur by working on unlicensed software
    You refuse to understand that.

    Don't understand me wrong. I don't care whether someone use licensed software or not. It is everyone's individual decision.
    But some guys asked me here, why I refuse to support LTSC, so I am giving the answer.

    In my country, you can even buy MS Office keys for just 5 euros.
    But it is a garbage and from legal perspective completely worthless.
    It is your responsibility that your software is properly licensed, not the seller from random site in the world.

    So I would be cautious when buying suspiciously cheap licenses of anything.
     
  8. We are talking about customization in general. Script is just a tool for that and I have created my for my own needs.
    I am sharing it to gather feedback, to make it better and to extend my knowledge and experience.
    Pure and simple.

    Maybe you should consult the lawyer your theories.
    I have did that.
    And in my country, it is your responsibility to provide a proof that you have consent from software vendor to use his software.
    It doesn't work that way, that you buy random key on random site and you are ok.
     
  9. #291 Deleted member 190847, Mar 22, 2023
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 23, 2023
    (OP)
    It is based on license facts.
    It is not free software. It is expensive, far too expensive and hard to acquire.

    I will explain you it as simply as I can.

    You write a ebook, you are the author and you have all copyrights, licenses, etc.

    Then I will buy copyright of your ebook for 2 cents from random drunk guy and his company started yesterday.
    I will buy 100 "licenses" for 2$ at once with rights to distribute, etc.
    I am "legal". Ohhh, really ?
    I am confident that the court will have radically different opinion about that.

    I started using internet on Windows 95 OSR2. But this argument is worthless by itself.
    We are talking about copyrights and you believe that you can acquire cheap legal Windows licenses with totally ignoring Microsoft (the author of it) and his rights.
     
  10. #292 Deleted member 190847, Mar 22, 2023
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 22, 2023
    (OP)
    It does not costs 40 euros.

    You may buy "licenses" from random guys over the web and think you are legal.
    Some dishonest sellers have keys that can be activated multiple of times, so they sell multiple "licenses" despite not having such.
    I will not buy such crap, and your legal analysis is worthless to me.

    So we agree that we don't agree. EOT
     
  11. Muggaen

    Muggaen MDL Addicted

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    I havent give up yet slim 10, to day maked a new iso pro only installed and digital activated so far so good, but here is my probs, I have a legit microsoft acount key full office 2021 pro plus but the only way I can activate it is with kms tool and its no go when have legal key and account, otherwise all seems works as it should but I will still go back to IoT LTSC 19044 because no activation problems.and no I havent the log because already went back to IoT LTSC again.
     
  12. Enthousiast

    Enthousiast MDL Tester

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    KMS_VL_ALL will skip the legit activated office, else show the debug log in the dedicated thread for @abbodi1406 to review.
     
  13. Muggaen

    Muggaen MDL Addicted

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    I explain once more
    Windows is digital activated this time, office wont activate with my account legit key) if use kms tool it activate it, its not that big problem but still got a legal key for office and cant use it.This only happend on the win 10 slimmet vkeller
     
  14. Enthousiast

    Enthousiast MDL Tester

    Oct 30, 2009
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    Don't use chopped ISOs?
     
  15. KMPLAYER

    KMPLAYER MDL Junior Member

    Jan 12, 2014
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    I agree with @acer-5100's arguments.

    @acer-5100 perfectly defines - for personal use.

    We make the following assumption: Users have purchased a legal, official Enterprise LTSC and accordingly have a perfectly regular serial number. But let's assume again that such users do not wish, do not want to be spied on, do not wish and do not want to have the superfluous ************ in short - "nonsense".

    And now we're back to the BEGINNING: Accordingly, users owning Enterprise LTSC decide to remove everything that's in their way, using your (@wkeller) Slimdown10 script to make their own iso. What's wrong?! Your Slimdown10 script does not officially support Enterprise LTSC.

    @Muggaen, in my first experiment with Slimdown10 and IoT Enterprise LTSC I used KMS_VL_ALL via hardware logging. It is supposed to be registered, but after 10, 20 or 30 minutes it says that it is not registered. Accordingly, I registered it with KMS, but from IoT Enterprise LTSC after registering with KMS, it became only Enterprise LTSC. IoT disappeared when registering with KMS.
     
  16. #298 Deleted member 190847, Mar 22, 2023
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 22, 2023
    (OP)
    Serial numbers are not licenses. You can have a serial number which wil activate on 30 different machines, but you are entitled to use only one such machine at a time.
    If you are dishonest, you can sell such serial number to 30 different people. All of them will activate and work, but they have still unlicensed software.
    This just an example, but there are other examples when you have valid activated serial number, but unlicensed software.

    Serial numbers and activation are related more to technical details than to legal details. Yes, serial numbers and activation are designed to limit the piracy, but it doesn't mean that they necessarily determine legality of your software.
    Some smart guy can even keygen or misuse some serial number (eg sell education key to corpo customer) and state that he is selling you a proper license.
    There are plenty of such cases over the web and license misuses.

    No company owner or director will risk with such crap. It is wasting money and it will give you little legal protection, when you will be controlled by authorities.

    I do not have currently Office 2021 to check, because I still use older (but working) Office versions that activate properly.

    But you may try removing these sections from Slimdown10.cmd and try:
    Code:
    set "DisableServices=%DisableServices%,wlidsvc"
    Code:
    REM Set Software Protection Platform service to manual, disable logging and remove tasks
    reg add "HKLM\TK_SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Services\sppsvc" /v "Start" /t REG_DWORD /d "3" /f >nul
    reg add "HKLM\TK_SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Services\EventLog\Application\Software Protection Platform Service" /v "Start" /t REG_DWORD /d "4" /f >nul
    reg add "HKLM\TK_SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Services\EventLog\Application\Microsoft-Windows-Security-SPP" /v "Start" /t REG_DWORD /d "4" /f >nul
    reg add "HKLM\TK_SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Control\WMI\Autologger\EventLog-Application\{e23b33b0-c8c9-472c-a5f9-f2bdfea0f156}" /v "Enabled" /t REG_DWORD /d "0" /f >nul
    reg add "HKLM\TK_SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\WINEVT\Channels\Microsoft-Windows-Security-SPP-UX-GenuineCenter-Logging/Operational" /v "Enabled" /t REG_DWORD /d 0 /f >nul
    reg add "HKLM\TK_SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\WINEVT\Channels\Microsoft-Windows-Security-SPP-UX-Notifications/ActionCenter" /v "Enabled" /t REG_DWORD /d 0 /f >nul
    set RemoveTasks=%RemoveTasks%,"SoftwareProtectionPlatform\SvcRestartTask","SoftwareProtectionPlatform\SvcRestartTaskLogon","SoftwareProtectionPlatform\SvcRestartTaskNetwork"
     
  17. The script is designed to be universal, so I can easily modify it to support future Windows versions like Windows 11.
    It should also be 99% compatible with LTSC.

    So you will ask: why do I refuse to support LTSC ?

    Because, paradoxically, 99% compatibility is not enough. Even single registry entry could break compatibility, so I would have to test the script against LTSC everytime I release new version.
    The test means building, installing and other testings.
    But I am single guy, not company with employees that will do it for me. I have no time to waste for something that I will probably never use personally (I clearly explained why).

    So my advice to LTSC users is to create their own forked versions and it will be their responsibility to keep it compatible.

    Surely these 2 sections are not compatible:

    1. Updates. LTSC could have different updates than latest retail.

    2. Target release settings, ie.:
    Code:
    Reg add "HKLM\TK_SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate" /v "ProductVersion" /t REG_SZ /d "Windows 10" /f >nul
    Reg add "HKLM\TK_SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate" /v "TargetReleaseVersion" /t REG_DWORD /d "1" /f >nul
    Reg add "HKLM\TK_SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate" /v "TargetReleaseVersionInfo" /t REG_SZ /d "22H2" /f >nul
     
  18. egroups_megapics

    egroups_megapics MDL Member

    Aug 12, 2009
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    my thoughts @wkeller tool/script is designed to make original iso clean without any unwanted stuff.
    If any OS is supposed to be used in business there should not be crappy unwanted games bundled. business need productivity and not people having games. From IT admin view desktop deployed in controlled environment needs to have basic apps and only required access to internet. All this network traffic of telemetry needs to be blocked. From it security team it is pain to identify what is open and blocked on UTM devices. LTSC version is good for system deployed in closed environment but app support is bad. You will find ms own apps are mentioned as not supported for these versions

    Personally I have used other scripts, registry keys to clean windows for our company network with 400+ pcs. and yes Businesses will always like to stay in legal norms so they will go for Pro licenses (min financial expenses).

    Have 2 laptops one running Windows 10 Pro with max things removed and registry tweaks applied runs perfect for daily usage. another personal low end system Asus eebook 402sa 2gb RAM/32GB storage running LTSC. this pc has only portable apps firefox/chrome/putty/kitty/filezilla for use in datacenter as console device.

    @wkeller has made script to make initial setup of OS as clean as possible. Otherwise we need to find individual scripts to run them after install.

    We should be thankful for his effort. If any tool does not meet my requirement i would stop using it and look elsewhere to find what i need.

    our planned upgrade to Windows 11 i'm to test if this script can be used for Windows 11 (know this is not smooth need time and patience to read the script and find what things are changed in win11)

    @wkeller awaiting your slimdown11 edition. count me in beta testing group