The right to be forgotten...

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by gorski, Jan 24, 2012.

  1. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
    2,950
    751
    90
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16677370
    [h=1]EU proposes 'right to be forgotten' by internet firms[/h] [​IMG]

    Viviane Reding said that individuals must be given control over their information



    A new law promising internet users the "right to be forgotten" will be proposed by the European Commission on Wednesday.
    It says people will be able to ask for data about them to be deleted and firms will have to comply unless there are "legitimate" grounds to retain it.
    The move is part of a wide-ranging overhaul of the commission's 1995 Data Protection Directive.
    Some tech firms have expressed concern about the reach of the new bill.
    Details of the revised law were unveiled by the Justice Commissioner, Viviane Reding, at the Digital Life Design (DLD) conference in Munich.
    A spokesman for the commissioner clarified that the action was designed to help teenagers and young adults manage their online reputations.
    "These rules are particularly aimed at young people as they are not always as aware as they could be about the consequence of putting photos and other information on social network websites, or about the various privacy settings available," said Matthew Newman.
    He noted that this could cause problems later if the users had no way of deleting embarrassing material when applying for jobs. However, he stressed that it would not give them the right to ask for material such as their police or medical records to be deleted.
    Although the existing directive already contains the principle of "data minimisation", Mr Newman said that the new law would reinforce the idea by declaring it "a right".
    Data loss alerts Other measures in the bill include an obligation on all firms to notify users and the authorities about data lost through hacking attacks or other breaches "as soon as possible".
    Ms Reding said that she would expect that under normal circumstances this would mean within 24 hours.
    The commissioner said that firms would have to explicitly seek people's permission to use data about them and could not proceed on the basis of "assumed" consent in situations where approval was required.
    Her proposed law says that internet users must also be notified when their data is collected, and be told for what purpose it is being processed and for how long it will be stored.
    The bill also suggests people must be given easier access to the data held on them, and should have the right to move it to another provider in addition to the right to have it deleted.
    However, the commissioner said that she recognised there were some circumstances under which this right would not apply.
    "The archives of a newspaper are a good example. It is clear that the right to be forgotten cannot amount to a right of the total erasure of history," Ms Reding told DLD delegates.
    If approved the law would create a pan-EU set of data privacy rules for the first time. These would also apply to overseas companies active in the 27-member bloc, even if they handled the data on servers based in other parts of the world.
    The commissioner suggested that this would simplify regulations and reduce the administrative burden on firms, saving them around 2.3bn euros ($3bn; £1.9bn) a year.
    Penalties However, Microsoft Europe's chief operating officer, Ron Zink, was quoted by the Financial Times as saying that the proposals might be "too prescriptive".
    Facebook also signalled that it wanted more information about the scope of the data that the EU thought users should be able to control.
    But it added: "We welcome vice-president Reding's view that good regulation should encourage job creation and economic growth rather than hindering it, and look forward to seeing how the EU Data Protection Directive develops in order to deliver these two goals while safeguarding the rights of internet users."
    Google and Yahoo said that they were not able to provide statements at this time.
    Firms that failed to abide by the proposed new rules could be fined as much as 1% of their global revenues, according to a draft document obtained by the Reuters news agency. The FT had reported in December that the sum could be as much as 5%.
    The new rules will need to be approved by the EU's member states and ratified by the European Parliament. As a result it could take two or more years for the new directive to come into effect.


    WHAT SAY YOU?!?
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  2. Yen

    Yen Admin
    Staff Member

    May 6, 2007
    11,171
    10,927
    340
    I hope this won't be blahblah only and actions will follow. But I guess the US companies are not happy about to cooperate. Their own interests are more worth to them. With collecting data and to create consumer profiles you can make a lot of money.
    But this would mean to store and to keep the data.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  3. nodnar

    nodnar MDL Addicted

    Oct 15, 2011
    953
    622
    30
    i have my doubts!

    because it is another RULE.
    while this one SEEMS positive for the people,
    it should not be needed, i feel..
    i have a bellyfull of people trying to regulate
    the www, lately..
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  4. R29k

    R29k MDL GLaDOS

    Feb 13, 2011
    4,675
    4,276
    150
    Introduce a law that looks favorable and then screw it up in bits to suit your cause over time.
    I would be very suspicious of the EU pushing this right now, very odd timing isn't it ?!
     
  5. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
    2,950
    751
    90
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16713562

    ...inadvertently...:rolleyes:
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  6. nodnar

    nodnar MDL Addicted

    Oct 15, 2011
    953
    622
    30
    just like they inadvertently did some wardriving in major cities, noting inadvertently
    each wifi they could inadvertently find, and inadvertentlyphotographed the places,, :)
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  7. Yen

    Yen Admin
    Staff Member

    May 6, 2007
    11,171
    10,927
    340
    When it's done properly it is a good thing.
    I don't see it as a regulation of the www.
    I see it as right the consumer has if he joins a commumity or when he needs to provide any personal data (shopping as well)

    I see it similar to my 10 days return right. EVERY online shop that offers something need to comply at my country.
    I can send any ordered article back without to name a reason. Of course I need to handle it with care and must not damage it, lol.
    So it can work the same way. Every service that is available in the EU has to follow the conditions, that means:
    A short e-mail to e.g. facebook to request to delete my data and they must do it.

    This is no regulation of the www itself, it is a determination of conditions to get a valid agreement / contract. All made to stregthen privacy of the user / consumer.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  8. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
    2,950
    751
    90
    In neo-con/neo-lib terms the balance is tipped all the way to corporations...

    The state must legislate to protect those who otherwise have no real power to get changes of the sort where the balance is tipped back...

    Else, we must take to the streets and the state knows all too well the cost of that... Ergo, partial interests must be shown their limit and not allowed to force their particular interest forward as the general interest.

    In fact, the fundamental or specific law(s) which alleges that it is an expression of general interest but which does not contain all the interests of the community whose relationships it regulates in fair/just measure invokes rebellion and maybe even revolution.

    So, all those who favour no regulation or simple self-regulation of markets live in cloud-cuckoo-land...

    Corporations have no conscience!!!
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  9. nodnar

    nodnar MDL Addicted

    Oct 15, 2011
    953
    622
    30
    hi gorski,

    you`ve earned my unreserved respect with your posts!
    and now i find you feel i live in cloud-cuckoo-land...
    call me naive, if you like, but i feel i don`t!

    i just feel states can only pretend to protect their
    citizens, unable as they are to go against commercial
    interests..

    regards, nodnar.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  10. Yen

    Yen Admin
    Staff Member

    May 6, 2007
    11,171
    10,927
    340
    Well it's all about credibility of governments (as I already have posted to be an important part of a democracy).
    It seems many are losing trust in their government, they deny the ability to reflect their needs.
    The general idea is well, but how it will be realized....we need trust.

    If all trust has gone one day then the EU will collapse.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  11. nodnar

    nodnar MDL Addicted

    Oct 15, 2011
    953
    622
    30
    well, yen,
    i must plead guilty here..
    a vast european bureaucracy is unlikely to protect my
    interests, i feel..
    they cannot afford to go against commercial interests.
    the very thought that states still have role in this, is alien to me..
    so if they impose new rules and regulations, i cannot find it in
    my heart to support that..
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  12. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
    2,950
    751
    90
    #12 gorski, Jan 25, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2012
    (OP)
    Hmmm, I believe I can help there, not just be critical.

    I hope you saw I wasn't cynical, to begin with... That should help, if...

    If you see anti-trust/anti-monopolist bodies alone, you will see EU acting against such processes. For instance, as mentioned, m$ but also, the recent case, of zip-manufacturers, who were found to be running a monopoly and fixing prices way too high - fined badly and further action running etc.

    From the very start, the steel manufacturers common bodies, EU went out of its way to prevent over capacity, as well as confrontation in terms of national interests siding with their own corporations, on the level of EU and we have all seen it worked. From there they built more and more of EU. Ergo, it is working and moreover, it is necessary!

    I agree with your sentiment that they ought not be trusted completely. EFSA, for instance, is one such body which is preoccupied with industry's interests way before the EU citizens at large. Abominable!

    But as I said, since I am not a naivete and non-critical, fan-like puppet, these battles, you are right, are running deeply through the very body, not just of EU - but the world, as such! Neo-conservative/Neo-liberal tendencies/forces are pushing the whole world in the direction which, to my mind, must be resisted. We obviously agree there.

    Broadly speaking: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16690607 - forcing this... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-16713717

    Or: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16545898

    How fair is this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-16706378

    After WW II progressive taxation was there as a civilisational achievement and solidarity in action but no more...

    So, we must protest and keep doing so. State is but one factor and it alone won't do it all. We must push it. And we have the means... Political parties depend on us, after all...

    Not to be forgotten, even though most of the time it isn't enough, I agree with you...
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  13. nodnar

    nodnar MDL Addicted

    Oct 15, 2011
    953
    622
    30
    we can shake hands on that gorski!
    i could not agree more!
    including the we must protest part, indeed!
    if this is the common conclusion of all these
    threads, then count me in..
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  14. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
    2,950
    751
    90
    Modernity rests squarely on the shoulders of competent Subjects!

    Not merely professionally but politically and morally competent!

    If we are disinterested and inactive - it can all revert...

    Well, to pre-modern, Feudal, Nazi or Stalinist garbage!

    Any tool in that direction is cool!

    This measure enables us...
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  15. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
    2,950
    751
    90
    Btw, I didn't say I would uncritically trust EU or any such organisation. I said they can do the right thing (on occasion) but we have to push them to do it, at least some of the time.

    How? Well, from the system itself (political parties, elections etc.), all the way to "outside of system" type of pressures...

    We have the legal and legitimate freedom to organise and agitate, if necessary...

    You can also "press" your MP's or MEP's wife or hubby and... :D

    I'll leave it to your imagination... :D :biggrin5:
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  16. nodnar

    nodnar MDL Addicted

    Oct 15, 2011
    953
    622
    30
    the interesting thing is that where shelving sopa resulted from outside pressure,
    this right to be forgotten thing just more or less falls out of the brussels sky..
    just like rain that you did not ask for..:)
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  17. RawData

    RawData MDL Member

    Mar 4, 2008
    223
    30
    10
    I think the "firms will have to comply unless there are "legitimate" grounds to retain it." part gives one hint how this will be nulled.
    Other than that... well, if this ever sees daylight, some parties involved have then watered down it completely already.

    Then there's a question if countries decide to put their own laws abobe this. If not for else, then for "national intrest" or "national security".
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  18. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
    2,950
    751
    90
    No can do, such is the EU...
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  19. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
    2,950
    751
    90
    Hehe, but only for revolutionary reasons... :D

    Which is light years away...:(
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  20. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
    2,950
    751
    90
    Good to know we're not exactly alone and without representation...

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16757142

    Read on and do tell...:cool:
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...