What about Windows Thin PC?

Discussion in 'Windows Embedded' started by yro, May 30, 2011.

  1. yro

    yro MDL Senior Member

    Jul 26, 2009
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    Hi all.

    I was thinking..

    What about a new area in this forum for the Windows Thin PC?

    I want to install it in some machines to test it and make some tweaks here... lets talk about it?
     
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  2. UVAIS

    UVAIS MDL Expert

    Mar 17, 2011
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    nothing good i found :(
     
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  3. Rudi1

    Rudi1 MDL Member

    May 30, 2007
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    For my Intel Atom CPU 330 1.60 GHz working really fine and so far I have all of what I need. ;)
     
  4. Josh Cell

    Josh Cell MDL Developer

    Jan 8, 2011
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    I found it very good, can you install on machines without compromising the extremely outdated system, sometimes uses less than 200MB of RAM ;)
     
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  5. BitSwitcher

    BitSwitcher MDL Junior Member

    Jan 24, 2011
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    Is the Thin Client template in IBW identical to the Windows Thin PC configuration?
     
  6. fafhrd

    fafhrd MDL Junior Member

    Mar 2, 2010
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    No, - it depends on which components you choose - you could make a nearly identical version (the licensing would be different), but you could modify which parts you want and those which you could do without.

    w w w .microsoft.com/windowsembedded/en-us/develop/windows-embedded-standard-7-os-components.aspx

    The WS7P set gives the richest component set. A few of the components conflict with others, which is why the ThinPC cannot support things like Windows restore or Defender, or virtual memory. All those are supported if the enhanced write filter, and/or file-based write filter are not included.
     
  7. BitSwitcher

    BitSwitcher MDL Junior Member

    Jan 24, 2011
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    Oh, good to know, thanks. I would miss hibernate...
     
  8. fafhrd

    fafhrd MDL Junior Member

    Mar 2, 2010
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    If the system you intend to run on has XP/Vista/Windows 7 chipset drivers you should be ok - Hibernate is part of the power management subsystem, which relies on chipset features.

    I don't use Hibernate, myself - the thought of giving up disk space equivalent to my RAM size, brings out the mean streak in me. Standby is plenty green enough thankyou. I use it in VMs though!

    There is some difficulty with some newer Windows 7 apps and WES7 - like Windows Virtual PC and Microsoft Security Essentials which do not run in Embedded at the moment. WSUS also seems to be involved here - Microsoft is clearly so determined that nothing new from Windows development can be run on XP, they are a little overzealous in restricting the Platforms that programs made just for 7 can be run upon. I hope this doesn't get into the signed drivers area - it could make running anything other than retail/OEM Windows 7 and later on new machines very difficult.

    Still, Embedded runs really well in VirtualBox - better than Virtual PC - and with a resource-light host - XP or Linux, giving it a reasonable chunk of memory, 850MB or so for the Virtual machine, it runs great.
     
  9. livinginswva

    livinginswva MDL Member

    Sep 5, 2010
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    we are installing zero clients on the shop floor at work, this seems to be a low cost and easy to maintain system
     
  10. fafhrd

    fafhrd MDL Junior Member

    Mar 2, 2010
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    Could I ask the ballpark cost per client, and the numbers of clients involved, down there is SWVA?
     
  11. 100

    100 MDL Expert

    May 17, 2011
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    FYI, Windows Thin PC has now reached RTM and will be available for download on July 1 :)
    windowsteamblog.com/windows/b/business/archive/2011/06/07/windows-thin-pc-rtms.aspx
     
  12. BitSwitcher

    BitSwitcher MDL Junior Member

    Jan 24, 2011
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    FAQ on above mentioned page:
     
  13. Oz

    Oz MDL Expert

    Sep 1, 2009
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    Or they could continue using Windows XP which they probably have been for at least 5-6 years. :cool:
     
  14. BitSwitcher

    BitSwitcher MDL Junior Member

    Jan 24, 2011
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    #15 BitSwitcher, Jun 13, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 20, 2017
    Code:
    SHA-1 Message Digest                     MD5 Message Digest               CRC-32   Size       Label                     Windows Edition                Language
    
    
    Windows Embedded Standard 7 (WES7) with Service Pack 1: Toolkit with Image Configuration Editor (ICE), Image Builder Wizard (IBW)
    
    06341B6BF61318E34757812DC7E5A30D3A7F46AD C2BB68F56C35C6C5AFD94F456D985A7B 5F13FB40 4509413376 STANDARD 7 SP1 TOOLKIT    WES7 SP1 Toolkit    OEM    All Multiple
    6F84F7A0E2315730A8F86750FC5959AEFF2AA8A8 E65A9F5B582ACC9FE504621CBA691682 D66A9AB6 3625994240 STANDARD 7 SP1 64BIT IBW  WES7 SP1 IBW        OEM    x64 Multiple
    828311930602A92278E6857AE5CF1338C021AD09 8928DC77319CDE42985EABD9B431DE97 6DECD3D4 2992934912 STANDARD 7 SP1 32BIT IBW  WES7 SP1 IBW        OEM    x86 Multiple
     
  15. fafhrd

    fafhrd MDL Junior Member

    Mar 2, 2010
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    However, TPC runs MSOffice, old and new, without problem, and handles multiple windows better than would be expected. TPCMSO.jpg

    After all, Windows Thin PC runs on a PC, and does not have to be locked down like a thin client running just server applications - there is room for configuration, local applications etc.

    There are only a few applications that will not run on TPC, and at present, they all seem to come from Microsoft. What's more, reading the feedback at the Microsoft Connect Windows TPC page (now closed since the RTM announcement), the inability to run certain things was "By Design" - like antimalware, XPMode, system restore - since the components that lock down TPC - the EWF and FBWF conflict fundamentally with those features.

    XPMode does not run since the license is enforced by software - Windows Virtual PC is fundamentally tied to just a few editions of Windows 7, excluding the Embedded variety. Microsoft Virtual PC 2007 runs fine with XPMode VHDs, (and the old registry hack to activate XP works fine on XPMode VMs).
     
  16. BitSwitcher

    BitSwitcher MDL Junior Member

    Jan 24, 2011
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    #17 BitSwitcher, Jul 2, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 20, 2017
    Code:
    SHA-1 Message Digest                     MD5 Message Digest               CRC-32   Size       Label                        Windows Edition      Language
    
    
    Windows 7 Thin PC (WinTPC): English
    
    4174790A9935A2345C664A2F0F7BFF01FEE49395 FECBF6009CC3888A2973EACD56161EF0 DAE0383A 1577082880 THINPC 7 32BIT BOOTABLE IBS  WinTPC    [HIGHLIGHT]Eval  [/HIGHLIGHT] x86 English
    CC181653C1BAAF85337CDA069E35D0D94F99CCA9 434DC27B6ECD4932D300A5E756397FF5 B286DF82 1576980480 THINPC 7 32BIT BOOTABLE IBS  WinTPC    [HIGHLIGHT]Retail[/HIGHLIGHT] x86 English
    (EditionID is actually Embedded).
     
  17. alien2xx

    alien2xx MDL Senior Member

    Aug 5, 2009
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    I installed WES7 under VMWare 4.1 and it works great, I also installed it on a slower pc and it also works great (using the thinclient template), the only think I find annoying is that the option 'search' is not there anymore.. I mean searching folder and files, search box on explorer, etc... no way to search files by name... do you know any way around it? I installed a bunch of applications and they all work great.
     
  18. alien2xx

    alien2xx MDL Senior Member

    Aug 5, 2009
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  19. fafhrd

    fafhrd MDL Junior Member

    Mar 2, 2010
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    You can have Windows Search - here's how:

    In the Image Builder Wizard, after you have selected the Thin Client template, your language and keyboard, you reach the "Summary of drivers and features" screen.

    On this screen, you can select the "Modify Drivers" and "Modify Features" check boxes.

    The next screen deals with Device drivers, and you can add a "devices.pmq" file (an XML file like an answer file generated by Tap.exe, detailing the devices installed, or residing on the target machine. Found in the "Panther" subfolder.) for the machine you are installing upon, or automatically detect them, or ignore the additional drivers.

    I have so far found that selecting drivers manually leads to a failed install usually, so I leave the unmapped devices on the next screen alone.

    You then get to the feature packages screen, where there are two branches to open, Feature Packages, and Language Packages.

    Near the bottom of the tree there is the "User Interface" feature set, and the bottom feature is "Windows Search" - which you want to select. You may want "DVD Maker", too, but you do not want to select "Command Prompt Shell with Custom Shell Support", since this is not compatible with the "Windows Shell" which contains the graphical user interface which we all know as "Windows".

    A few other features in Embedded which are not compatible with "standard" Windows 7, and should be unchecked for the closest approach to normal windows are:

    "Boot Environments" - Uncheck "Enhanced Write Filter Boot Environment", and check "Windows Boot environment"

    "Data Integrity" - check all

    "Embedded Enabling Features" - Uncheck "Enhanced Write Filter with HORM", "File-Based Write Filter (FBWF)".

    "Security" - check "AntiMalware", and "Bitlocker" if you plan to use it.

    All else is up to you, and whether all the dependencies and conflicts are resolved. Make sure the "Resolve optional dependencies" and "Include applicable updates" are checked and then click the "Resolve Dependencies" button, and with luck nothing will pop up. If you cannot resolve any issue, you may need to take a note, and to reselect the packages which are in conflict.

    The next screen is another summary, with the difference that the Estimated OS Footprint size has changed.

    The following screen, "Where do you want to install Windows" gives a list of your installable partitions. NEVER RELY ON THE DRIVE LETTER - The Drive letters can change depending on the system currently booted
    ALWAYS LABEL DRIVE VOLUMES with unique meaningful names - this can be done in Windows Explorer, Disk Management Console or from the command prompt with utilities like Diskpart and Format.

    Although the screen states "To make changes to partitions, restart Windows from the installation disk", it is possible to invoke the command console by pressing Shift F10 at the same time, and to use command-line disk utilities, even at this stage.

    That's all - the next screen starts the file copying and installation.

    When you have used the IBW a few times, you may wish to graduate the the ICE - Image Configuration Editor - where you could customise logon, resume, and shutdown screens, etc., to a high degree, and add third party applications. Another way is to add features to the working system, use sysprep, then to take an image (wim) of the drive, which you can clone to another machine. I think you can use sysprep in this way 4 times.