What do you think about Electric Cars?

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by Katzenfreund, Aug 24, 2017.

?

Will your next car be electric?

  1. My next car will be electric

  2. I’ll wait several years for prices to drop

  3. I’m not convinced by them, I’ll buy conventional

  4. I am undecided, far more info is required

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Katzenfreund

    Katzenfreund MDL Expert

    Jul 15, 2016
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    Electric cars are the latest major development in automobile technology. They are quiet and clean, contributing to drastic reduction in air pollution in the cities, much needed in some places. And they are claimed to be environmentally friendly overall.

    But at the same time, they have serious disadvantages. They’re expensive, have a limited range per battery charge and their long term viability hasn't been proven.

    What concerns me, is that despite all the claims, I haven’t seen a convincing, in depth study that proves they’re environmentally friendly when all sources of pollution are taken into account, including car plus battery manufacture, as well as production, distribution and charging/storage of electricity. So we could well be sweeping under the carpet by shifting pollution from the cities to the countryside.

    Furthermore, there’s the question of energy efficiency, that is how many fuel resources are consumed and by extension, how much the planet is warming up. The electric motor is efficient, but the supply chain of its electricity may not be.

    Finally for the skeptics, Is there a plot by the car industry to boost sales, akin to bringing out a new model only far more so?
     
  2. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    #2 Yen, Aug 24, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2017
    Whether electric cars do have a future this time or not depends on several factors.

    E cars are a matter since the year 1832 already. Since then there were periods of times where they came up and went away again.

    Recently it seems there is a boom of them again also caused by the recent Diesel scandal.

    The factors which seem important to me are:

    - recycling technologies
    - storage technologies
    - technologies to gain electricity / replacement of fossil fuels
    - electricity infrastructure

    To initiate a new 'attempt' one has to make sure there will be supply.
    It's hard to say in theory if the coordination of that many factors can be a success or not. Nothing can replace the practical realisation, though to get an answer on the question.

    The realisation has to come along with the replacement of fossil fuels as fuels (and nuclear energy of course), though -long term-
     
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  3. Tiger-1

    Tiger-1 MDL Guru

    Oct 18, 2014
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    @ Yen really I agree with you and Katz and in my vision the principal obstacle is battery although I see another day in somewhere that Toyota are working in new battery that support a lot of hours working without recharge but as I already tell is only one of severals obstacles unfortunately;)
     
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  4. JFKI

    JFKI MDL Expert

    Oct 25, 2015
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    I live in the North East of the USA. There is at least one storm a year which dumps several feet of snow.
    My next vehicle will be a 4WD pickup truck with a snow plow.
    How far do you think that will get on battery power ?
     
  5. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

    Jul 26, 2012
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    @JFKI: At this point? Maybe 10 meters :D

    The problem is the battery. In very cold places, the cranking power would be diminished by the cold.
    It happens now with batteries just being used for starting an engine.

    How well do hybrid cars perform in extreme cold?

    That should be an indicator of how an electric car will perform.
     
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  6. JFKI

    JFKI MDL Expert

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    10 meters ? Sheesh MJ, you are optimistic. :p

    As for the rest, I know. ;)
     
  7. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    #7 Yen, Aug 25, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2017
    I think when it comes to utility cars which have to perform additional works, other than just to go from a to b the work per battery charge is not satisfying. A hybrid maybe.
    Anyway I think e cars can be an alternative in cold countries, too. For some reasons in Norway they are a sort of popular already. (More than any fourth newly registered vehicle is an e car there)

    http://blog.ucsusa.org/dave-reichmuth/electric-cars-cold-weather-temperatures

    As mentioned already another thing is the chronology of new tech and its establishment.
    You cannot make anything 'right' in advance without to have more and more consumers. The problems are resolved when they really exist to a certain percentage. Also only then the costs for such cars can drop.

    ATM the lithium deposit is still that high that recycling hardly is a matter.

    Finally the driving force is capital, nobody can change that. Research will be extended as soon there is a 'profitable' market.
    Research alone costs money only. I know that personally from my job when we have to reason the need for another expensive scientific device.
     
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  8. Joe C

    Joe C MDL Guru

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    #8 Joe C, Aug 25, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2017
    There are also hybrid gas/electric cars too, where they have a small gas powered engine like a 3 cyl, coupled with an electric motor. I test drove a Toyota Avalon a couple years ago with this set up, and I couldn't notice when it was running on electric or gas, but it was only a test drive in the city and did not get a chance to see what it could (or could not) do when you got out into the open roads and on the freeway. Tesla electric cars have the best performance and run time, but I do not believe that this is good for the future, What are the dangers of these batteries in accidents? What is the life span of these large xxx-ion type of batteries and how much to replace?
    If your batteries reach their maximum re-charge cycles, do you need to replace the car?
     
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  9. Katzenfreund

    Katzenfreund MDL Expert

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    It seems that things are moving faster, or longer, than we thought. By accident, I've just come across a new Tesla model, claimed to go over 480 km after a single charge. This is comparable to a gas tankful of several conventional cars. And the Tesla is quite fast and impressive looking too. But don't rush to buy it, not unless you have $135,000 at hand!

    http://www.news18.com/news/auto/tes...kilometres-after-a-single-charge-1286215.html
     
  10. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

    Jul 26, 2012
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    If it was an Apple iCar you'd have to. :D

    All joking aside, there has been talk of the batteries being leased, since they're probably the most expensive part of the car.
     
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  11. Yen

    Yen Admin
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    I think there are different conceptions.
    We can research in the internet what's common already (warranty of manufactures on their homepage) or maybe can have posts from people who are driving an e car already.
    There will be conceptions which will later turn out as non practicable.
    But to get experiences on this there must be consumers. Without a working recycle infrastructure the costs for replacement of batteries will be higher.

    Cars do have batteries already, but their job isn't to drive the car and they are easily replaceable.

    I have found one from Tesla S

    Some editions have 8 years or 120000 km (whichever comes first) some have unlimited km but 8 years warranty.
    If you google about the replacement costs you find very different amounts of $...

    ATM it's most important to get recent informations to have a better impression about e cars at all.

    This thread is great for it. :)
     
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  12. Joe C

    Joe C MDL Guru

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    Gotta hand it to Elon Musk for creating a beautiful electric car. Why do other automotive manufacture's have to make them look like cockroaches with wheels?
     
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  13. dhjohns

    dhjohns MDL Guru

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    We are seeing the demise of the internal combustion engine. Electric cars/trucks are here to stay.
     
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  14. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    Well, A Finish taxi Tesla Model S driver got 400.000 km already and still has 93% charge! http://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-s-400k-km-250k-mi-7-percent-battery-degradation/

    Moreover: http://www.teslarati.com/tesla-battery-life-80-percent-capacity-840km-1-million-km/ - "An updated battery study based on crowdsourced data from Model S and Model X owners suggests that Tesla’s battery pack will still have 80% capacity after reaching 840,000 kilometers (521,952 miles), or nearly 1 million kilometers driven."

    It doesn't come much colder than Finland and much better than this! You guys must re-think your objections. :) Just look at this Swedish guy: http://mashable.com/2014/04/23/man-most-tesla-cars-cold/#gNsCopC3bEqa



    About a third of Tesla's sales are in cold climate. If it were "bad" we would have known by now... ;)







    Specific problems exist in Norway but for other reasons:

    However, when it comes to critically thinking about it: I would insist on finding other-than-oil ways to produce it.... Is this possible?

    http://www.teslarati.com/category/model-s/
     
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  15. JFKI

    JFKI MDL Expert

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    Perhaps if a way was found to directly harness electricity from a nuclear reaction to power the electric motor,
    And make that package compact.
    Battery power alone won't move that kind of weight very far.
     
  16. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    Oh, an ostrich game, I see... Any nice worms down there? :D
     
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  17. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    Btw, the poll is missing "My next car will be hybrid" option... ;)
     
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  18. Katzenfreund

    Katzenfreund MDL Expert

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    Yes, you’re right, hybrid cars have been left out to simplify the voting. It is my opinion that their future prospects are limited, because they have two engines, thus increasing cost, complexity, weight and maintenance.
     
  19. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

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    Norway has 230V, 50 hz.

    Quite a few countries appear to have the same.

    Source: http://treehouse.ofb.net/go/en/voltage

    Tesla has some engineering to do if they want to grab those sectors of the market. ;)
     
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  20. MrMagic

    MrMagic MDL Guru

    Feb 13, 2012
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    It's a dumb idea, everything that takes batteries is crap, it's a step backwards, people want instant not hours and hours at charging points