Which is safer? Loader or BIOS mod?

Discussion in 'Windows 7' started by who, Feb 4, 2010.

  1. who

    who MDL Junior Member

    Jan 10, 2009
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    I was wondering, I have a laptop. Is it safe to use say the WAZ loader? Is it safer to mod the BIOS? Which is better?

    Thanks :)
     
  2. timesurfer

    timesurfer MDL Developer

    Nov 22, 2009
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    It's Daz loader and its definately safer to use loader. The loader can be installed and uninstalled. The guys here are very good with bios mod's but there is a risk sometimes when a flash go's wrong. However on the flip side when bios mod is good then all you do is insert key and cert and then I believe its pretty permanent since I think MS doesn't check in the bios for moddeed slic table. I'm new so not totally sure?

    WAZ up...... :)
     
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  3. night.fox

    night.fox MDL Member

    Sep 21, 2009
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    safe to use loader especially if you are not sure what you are doing. I agree with timesurfer and loaders are being used eversince vista so it is perfectly safe too.
     
  4. Rosco

    Rosco MDL Addicted

    Oct 29, 2007
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    I had a Gigabyte board that I flashed with a BIOS mod - it worked for five months then it started misbehaving - not recognizing DVD in BIOS yet present in Windows.

    One day after 6 months it wouldn't post with memory read error. Place I bought it from closed and Gigabyte would not answer help requests.

    Faulty board anyway or the result of incomplete flash ? - Who knows BUT I am a little mod shy at the moment - no problems with loader - BUT I do know licence for Win 7 is cheaper than a new X58 Gigabyte board - now use an MSI and a licence key from ebaY.
     
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  5. Dolorous Edd

    Dolorous Edd MDL Expert

    Aug 31, 2009
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    If it ran for 6 months I doubt it was a bad flash or bad bios.
     
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  6. Rosco

    Rosco MDL Addicted

    Oct 29, 2007
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    Yeah - I tend to agree BUT you never know - all the other hardware worked with the new MSI board.
     
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  7. The_Spider

    The_Spider MDL Member

    Aug 23, 2009
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    #7 The_Spider, Feb 4, 2010
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2010
    Its really a seesaw decision. You have to take a few things into consideration.

    A BIOS mod, as I'm sure you already know, is a modification to your BIOS to either replace or include a SLIC certificate that is used for self activation. While the risk of updating any standard BIOS is present, the risk of modifying any BIOS is far greater. The end result of a bad update can make your computer completely useless. However, the tools released here have been put through so much scrutiny that risk is minimized greatly. Now I don't want you to think this is a completely safe measure, because its not, but most bad flashes are the result of people simply not paying attention and flashing using poor methods to flashing the wrong BIOS entirely. When a successful flash is performed your golden. If it works, IT WORKS, the motherboard won't stop functioning 6 months later due to your update, that is, unless you flash it again. Windows can be activated by the end user and the chances of a BIOS flash being deactivated is minimal.

    I can't say for sure that they wont ever detect a BIOS mod, but its very unlikely. Loaders are much easier to detect and remove. Micr*soft is more concerned about preventing mass distribution of its software that use software to bypass activation. This includes self activating installs you see on TPB commonly using some of the methods from here. (By that, I'm referring to people modifying the OS installers to also install a loader.) There is where the inherent risk of using a loader comes into play. As Micr*soft finds these they will release a patch or update to de-activate the loader. This is why installs using loaders can de-activate.

    Your decision needs to consider a few risks on either side of the pendulum. On the one hand there is an inherent risk with a BIOS flash, but with that comes the reduced fear that you won't have to do it again, or worry about it deactivating. The loader method is safe, but has a significant chance of being detected and circumvented in the future.

    Here is my suggestion:
    Check the BIOS forum here for your motherboard. GET THE MOTHERBOARD MODEL 100% CORRECT, don't guess at a number or think that a few more letters mean you have the same make/model/revision. (ie. MB6734 is not the same as MB6734-B!) If this is a refurbished machine check the board directly, don't rely on the model stamped on the side of case.

    When you find the mod request for your board in the forum check a few posts after to see if anyone has already applied that flash successfully. If no one responded at all then the flash was more than likely successful and applied by the requester, but he/she did not have the manners to report it as such. If they have reported a successful flash then the chances are its REALLY safe. What you are really looking for are reports that it was un-successful.

    If you don't find what I mentioned up above I would suggest using a loader. I would not recommend using the mod tool on a laptop yourself, you know the risks involved, and the BIOS chip on a laptop can not be replaced near as easy as one on a desktop motherboard.
     
  8. OEM-USER

    OEM-USER Guest

    Today, both are sure - bios mod and Loader,
    with WAT & SP1 - can now nobody sure say,

    - "i think not one of both sure for the future" -

    :worthy: by a License is the only 100% sure method for all time. :biggrin: :eek:
     
  9. who

    who MDL Junior Member

    Jan 10, 2009
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    OEM-USER: Of course it is and I will. I'm just a bit short on money but I'm defiinitely looking into buying the full thing soon.

    The_Spider: thanks for your really in depth answer. I will check this out. One question though: flashing my BIOS with a BIOS mod here, can this be undone by flashing it again with an official BIOS from the company's website?

    Thanks to everyone else to! :)
     
  10. Mitsch79

    Mitsch79 MDL Novice

    Apr 1, 2008
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    Yes you can go back to the official bios from your vendors website if you need to.
    But i just would like to add that even if somebody tried a modded bios and succeeded there is a 1 in 1000 chance that the flash process itself might fail for you.
    Flashing a bios is always a bit risky. But if it works, there would be _no_ chance for M$ to find out wether your board is an OEM one or not.
    With the loader thingy i had my difficulties in the past. I've been using the vistaloader (for a vista installation) which worked fine so far... just until Vista SP1 was released and
    i updated my machine. The loader wasn't working anymore. In fact this was not because M$ deactivated the loader, but it was some kind of Hardware+Loader+SP1 issue.
    Two of my boxes ran fine even with loader and sp1 and 2 other of my PCs failed to boot after applying sp1.
     
  11. who

    who MDL Junior Member

    Jan 10, 2009
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    mmm I'd like to try the BIOS way. But I'm not sure where to look exactly. I've looked at the BIOS forum but I'm a bit confused as to what to look for exactly.
     
  12. pkaji123

    pkaji123 MDL Addicted

    Aug 22, 2009
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    I always Suggest Loader till SP1 gets released..
    Even RemoveWAT is better..
     
  13. who

    who MDL Junior Member

    Jan 10, 2009
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    Why is that?
     
  14. NoJuan999

    NoJuan999 Experienced SLIC Tool Operator

    Jul 31, 2009
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    #14 NoJuan999, Feb 4, 2010
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2010
    I would have to agree with the post by The Spider.
    Obviously he has done his homework. :)
    Many, many notebooks / laptops and Desktop PC's have been successfully modified and very few have Bricked the MB.
    But there is always a slight chance of Bricking any MB if Flashed incorrectly or using the wrong Bios for your MB.

    Obviously a Loader is inherently the safer option.
    You can't damage hardware with a loader.

    Read this if you feel confident Flashing your BIOS.
    http://forums.mydigitallife.net/threads/5766-How-to-properly-request-for-a-bios-mod

    If you don't trust yourself to Fash your Bios correctly the use then Windows 7 Loader by Daz.
     
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  15. Elle233

    Elle233 MDL Member

    Aug 26, 2009
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    This is a detailed explanation. Good job!
     
  16. jradomsk

    jradomsk MDL Junior Member

    Oct 22, 2009
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    problems like this are usually a result of one of 2 posibilities..

    Most common.. cheap caps on the MB.. they crap out then the board slowly dies

    poor cooling on the chipset.. same thing.. machine slowly dies...
     
  17. PAYMYRENT

    PAYMYRENT MDL Developer

    Jul 28, 2009
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    there are other options too like the oem slic driver removewat and chew-wga :D
     
  18. Elle233

    Elle233 MDL Member

    Aug 26, 2009
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    PAYMYRENT, how does the oem slic driver operate? does it frankenbuild...or it emulates something?
     
  19. Daz

    Daz MDL Developer / Admin
    Staff Member

    Jul 31, 2009
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    I believe that if you format every few months to a year or are not bothered what activation solution you use as long as you can run Windows then the loader is that quick and safe root. How long will it last? How longs a piece of string? It's been working since Windows Vista though.

    When it comes to a BIOS mod if you're on a PC and one exists for your system then I would say as long as you flash it via the recommended method (pretty much never from within Windows) then you should be fine. However for laptops I would say be careful as they can cost allot more to repair, this is where I recommend an emulated solution unless the BIOS mod in question has been well tested on your model.

    @ Elle233
    The driver method is allot like the GRUB method apart from the GRUB method inserts the SLIC at a different time to the driver (GRUB = before Windows, Driver = Windows startup) and that the driver requires you to disable driver signing where as GRUB doesn't. So is it a frankenbuild? No, but it does require you to patch your system to hide a watermark.
     
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  20. Elle233

    Elle233 MDL Member

    Aug 26, 2009
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    Oh, thanks Daz for the information. Apparently, what it does is hidding water mark but can you update from windows update?