Which updates do I need after The Almighty Murphy's November 2014 release?

Discussion in 'Windows 8' started by MonarchX, Dec 7, 2014.

  1. MonarchX

    MonarchX MDL Expert

    May 5, 2007
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    Here we go again. I download updates through WHDownloader and I delete superseded ones, but I don't understand whether Baseline updates, like Update 3, already include all previous hotfix updates, general updates, security updates, etc... Do they?

    If I install Murphy's November 2014 release and then install the 700Mb Update 3 + 2 other Update 3 files, then will that cover ALL previous updates? It seems that even though I only use a single language, default English (US), Windows makes me reinstall old updates after I install new ones, which supposedly already include the old ones that Windows tells me to re-install!

    Here's a set of questions that badly needs a set of answers:
    1. Does Microsoft Windows Update provide all the necessary updates one needs or are there still beneficial updates that can only be downloaded with WHDownloader???
    2. Would Windows allow you to install an update that was included in a bigger roll-up update that has already been installed onto a system?
    3. Do baseline updates include Security, General, Hotfix, Additional, and Extra updates or only General Updates?
    4. Would Windows 8.1 Update 3 roll-up (3 files) be the only update needed if I were to perform a clean installation of Windows 8.1 Pro, using the Almighty's Murphy's November 2014 Release? I am not running a server or Virtual Machine or anything other than pure desktop PC for gaming using English (US) language.
    5. Does Update 3 include NET Framework 3.5, 4.5.2, and etc. updates?
    6. I'll be your slave for life if you would list the exact updates I would need to install after installing Murphy's release and running Update 3 (3x updates). That includes NET Framework Updates, General, Security, Hotfix, Additional, and Extra updates! Here's the info on his release:

    Servicing Stack Update:
    KB2989647

    Added updates:
    KB2899189, KB2920189, KB2950153, KB2954879-v2, KB2956575, KB2958262,
    KB2959626-v2, KB2961072, KB2962140, KB2964718, KB2965142, KB2967917,
    KB2969817, KB2971203, KB2971239, KB2971850, KB2972280, KB2973201,
    KB2973351, KB2976536, KB2976897, KB2977292, KB2977765, KB2978041,
    KB2978126, KB2978668, KB2979576, KB2981580, KB2981655, KB2988948,
    KB2990967, KB2992611, KB2993958, KB2998174, KB2998527, KB3002885,
    KB3003057, KB3003743, KB3004150, KB3005607, KB3006178, KB3006226,
    KB3008188, KB3008627, KB3010788, KB2934018, KB2959977, KB2934520,
    KB2955164, KB2965500, KB2962409, KB2980654, KB2975719, KB2979582,
    KB2990532, KB2993100, KB2993651, KB2977174, KB2984006, KB2994897,
    KB2995004, KB2995518, KB2995388, KB2996799-v2, KB3003667

    Embedded-Only update:
    KB2932074

    That is a LOT of updates. Previous releases did not have nearly as many. I was hoping that the above list covers practically all updates there ever were for Windows 8.1! I was hoping for an early December release, but that won't happen AFAIK.
     
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  2. MonarchX

    MonarchX MDL Expert

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    Does that work now? I remember a while back development stopped right about Update 1 came out and ever since then it kept out of date. It is not up-to-date and working or are you pointing me just to that thread for discussion???
     
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  3. MonarchX

    MonarchX MDL Expert

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    Check my reply in that thread you linked me to. It was worthless to use any of these updaters because after I followed the instructions and KUC did not detect any updates as superseded or as some that needed to be removed, I am now forced to download Update 1, which was already long-included in Murphy's November 2014 ISO, and then download Update 3 AGAIN, even though I Just recently installed it! What a load of crap!
     
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  4. s1ave77

    s1ave77 MDL Guide Dog/Dev

    Aug 15, 2012
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    Still that much confusion regarding Updates.

    #1. There is still a difference between using WHD Hotfixes (and have an up-to-date system) and satisfying Windows Update, the latter is only a PITA over the last months now. Stupid, stupid ...[fill in 1000 times stupid here]..., stupid WU :tongue2:.

    #2. There is unfortunately not one recipy that fits for all. I can sing several epic ballads about this, as i'm trying to maintain a german WIM here, which can react very picky after update integration. Most of these problems don't appear for en-US versions :cool2:. After 4 month now i managed to create an updated WIM which after install only demands stupid crap via WU, no-one needs (aka Browser-Choice and some others WU finickily offers).

    Now ... how should anybody answer your question properly ... :hmm:?
     
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  5. murphy78

    murphy78 MDL DISM Enthusiast

    Nov 18, 2012
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    There was an image version Update recently that consolidates all the components.
    It didn't come out until a week after last patch date, so I've been holding off to see if they would make updated isos.
    It doesn't look like they're going to, so I'm likely going to start updating my images today in preparation for Tuesday's patch day.
    I believe the update was kb3000850.

    So instead of wasting your time with this, you might want to just wait for that.

    It's nothing fancy really, you'd just add 3000850 and then check wuapp for updates to see what's being recommended.
    I am not sure if WHD downloads the hotfixes or just the updates. I only integrate updates.
     
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  6. s1ave77

    s1ave77 MDL Guide Dog/Dev

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    Yep, i also integrated updates first offline, installed the WIM in Audit Mode and checked with Powershell Windows Update Module for offered Updates, and refrained this till WU stopps to offer any useful stuff.

    Need to test the VBS version of WU check next time in Audit Mode, since it uses same 'trick' it should work likewise :g:.
     
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  7. Mr.X

    Mr.X MDL Guru

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    Both of them murphy.
     
  8. MonarchX

    MonarchX MDL Expert

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    I can guarantee you that even if you add that updates and even if Windows Update is satisfied, you can still find other updates that will install on top of all that and THEN Windows will no longer be satisfied and will tell you to run updates you have already used.

    Here's what I don't understand:
    If these wrap-up update packs, such as Update 3, do truly include all previous hotfixes, general updates, security updates, additional updates, and extra ones, then why is it still possible to install older updates AFTER installing these wrap-up update packs??? Does that mean that Windows DOES allow you to install older updates on top of the new ones? If not, then it means these wrap-up update packs do NOT include all the previous updates!!!
    Which is it?
     
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  9. abbodi1406

    abbodi1406 MDL KB0000001

    Feb 19, 2011
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    These roll-up update packs do NOT supersede all the previous updates, they include most of them

    no need for bold font

    btw, Windows DOES allow you to install older updates on top of the new ones, using DISM
     
  10. s1ave77

    s1ave77 MDL Guide Dog/Dev

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    Ahh ... that was main difference between DISM and WUSA, i knew there was one :doh:.
     
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  11. abbodi1406

    abbodi1406 MDL KB0000001

    Feb 19, 2011
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    Yep

    but do note, on online system, DISM can integrate cab files only, msu files will be rejected
     
  12. s1ave77

    s1ave77 MDL Guide Dog/Dev

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    Yep, i know :hug2:.
     
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  13. MonarchX

    MonarchX MDL Expert

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    But what about an average user who doesn't know what even DISM even is? Can an earlier update be normally installed on top of Windows that already have newer files installed? And if so - how the hell are you supposed to get OS updated when you have Windows Update telling you one thing and KUC telling another. KUC wants me to download and install updates, which are not even installable. Its a giant mess! Is there anything out there that can properly scan my OS and tell me which updates I actually need that will install and will not override any of the newer files???
     
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  14. abbodi1406

    abbodi1406 MDL KB0000001

    Feb 19, 2011
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    Average user should stick with WU

    and by the way, older files (updates) doesn't override new ones, higher version components will take precedence no matter what
     
  15. mcwilli4

    mcwilli4 MDL Novice

    Jun 23, 2013
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    #16 mcwilli4, Dec 11, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2014
    Know of anyway to get poweshell4 into a win7 thin image wim despite not having dotnet 4.5?
    Can't get it in because it needs dotnet, can't get dotnet 4.5 in because of there's no magical cab/msu that'll work.
    If I ever figure it out, I'll copyright the tool and call it dismblast=always servicing.

    Know this isn't about 8, but still servicing is servicing. Adding features isn't fun/ always easy.
     
  16. MonarchX

    MonarchX MDL Expert

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    #17 MonarchX, Dec 11, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2014
    (OP)
    Here's what I do exactly:
    1. Install Murphy's November 2014 release that includes a ton of update roll ups that include the vast majority of all previous updates and supersede them.
    2. Install the 700Mb Update 3 roll-up that again, contains and supersedes a ton of previous updates.
    3. Run Windows Update, which finds only about 5 rather small updates to install and after installing them, it tells me no further updating is needed. WU is satisfied at that poin, BUT THEN...
    4. I go to my WHDownloader folder, where ALL available updates are already downloaded. I begin trying out different updates, from older to newer. Most will tell me that they are either already installed OR not applicable. However, some updates WILL install, even though they were "supposedly" supersedes by all the updates I installed in steps 1-3. I check out all the files and install all installable updates.
    5. Then I go through all the WHDownloader updates again and I think some other updates suddenly become installable. Afterwards, none of the updates downloaded are installable.
    6. I go to KUC and download all the updates it thinks I need. Oddly, none of the updates it downloads can be installed. Sometimes I do this step 5 before step 4, in which case KUC downloads do apply, but fewer WHDownloaders updates can be installed, although some can still be installed.
    7. I go back to Windows Update, which now tells me to download the original Update 1 (...355 or whatever) and a ton of updates I have already installed! I download and install another 1-2GB of updates
    8. Then I run Windows Update again and it tells me I need Update 3, which, if you remember, I have already installed too! So, I don't download it, but go to the saved location and install it from there. This time around it installs a LOT faster.
    9. I go to Windows Update again and it finds a few more minor updates, which I install, and only THEN my OS completely updated and NO update files I have are installable. I downloaded ALL WHDownloader updates, so I assume none are installable, but who knows?!
    10. Then I run reset base and WinSxS cleaning script by Murphy, which ends up saving me some 3-4GB worth of space.
    11. From that point onward, all the new updates install fine without Windows asking me to install any older updates. I usually use the Reset Base + WinSxS cleaning script by Murphy after every 300-400MB of Windows Updates.

    Is that what it truly takes to fully and utterly update Windows 8.1 OS??? If NOT, then what is the correct sequence of completely and properly updating my OS? If I am to just use Windows Update after installing Murphy's November 2014 + 700MB Update 3 (steps 1-3), which would fully satisfy Windows Update, then I am not FULLY updating the OS. Otherwise, none of the KUC or WHDownloader updates would be installable after steps 1-3, but many are!

    This leads to a question of how would one truly integrate all these updates into an installation and has it not been done yet??? Maybe we need to take the raw Windows 8.1 disc and apply ever single update since the original release? Supersedes updates would have to be removed, but at times I wonder if these superseded updates contain some updated files not present in the superseding files?!

    I sincerely appreciate your input guys! I know I am a pain in the ass, but I just want to understand and only then I can contribute to the forum! Big THANKS!
     
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  17. Mr.X

    Mr.X MDL Guru

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    Good to know all this stated by you. Now, it would be a great idea to click "Thank for this post" or "Like this post" buttons as they are part of MDL User Ranks / Thanks System
    It is very important for it reflects the member's contribution:
     
  18. murphy78

    murphy78 MDL DISM Enthusiast

    Nov 18, 2012
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    I've been testing this 3000850 recently and it still requires the previous monthly rollups and a few hotfixes to stay current.
    I don't know how to describe it really because I don't have/care to have a list of the various components and superseded stuff.
    Because of the insane amount of integrated stuff I'm sysprepping everything for win8.1 this month.

    If TPB doesn't come back up I'll probably make this my final month.
    I haven't been learning anything for the last half a year or more and it's getting really boring.
     
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  19. MonarchX

    MonarchX MDL Expert

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    I completely understand that, especially considering that all the updating doesn't do all the updating and requires users to install long forgotten updates and then re-install the ones that were integrated, and only then install new ones. MS majorly messed up their updating system/method. You would think they could just post all the updates in one central location, more central than their current "central mess" and then simply list the exact updates included into whichever roll-up updates. MS overcomplicates things, leaving their customers with either semi-updated OS or requiring them to go through numerous hoops and loops to actually end up with a fully updated Windows. Thank God for Acronis True Image - the only way to integrate all the updates and be able to "re-install" the OS quickly and easily without having to re-downloaded the same stuff over and over and over AND over again.
     
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