Win 7, Z390 Chipset, & an old guy's fears

Discussion in 'Windows 7' started by digiquandry, Dec 11, 2018.

  1. digiquandry

    digiquandry MDL Junior Member

    Sep 13, 2015
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    Greetz,

    I am a long-time MDL fan, and used to visit often when Seven Forums was at its hey-day.

    I'm a Win7 "Lifer" (so that should say a lot).

    My last hardware build was based on the Z97 chipset (and it's still wonderful to me).

    I usually don't upgrade parts but, instead, do a whole new build.

    I had given up on that and was content to keep my old system for the next 20 years based on:

    1.) Hardware manufacturers abandoning Win7 drrivers and

    2.) the Bitcoin/GPU pricing fiasco


    That changed recently when I discovered that a small few are running Win 7 on the newer chipsets.

    I am a breath away from spending my money; but before I do I thought it wise of me to post here.

    In my sights is the following:

    87ooK on Z390 (or Z370) chipset.


    I'm interested in a "MILD" overclock and cool temps...So I plan to de-lid with standard AIO cooler.

    I am also going to do something I have never done before....go MINI-ITX. So this will be an entirely new build.

    I have read the following threads.



    /z370-chipset-install.75525/ (on this website)

    /threads/windows-7-image-updater-skylake-kabylake-coffelake-ryzen-threadripper.76335/ (on this website)

    /t29f25-Recommended-AHCI-RAID-and-NVMe-Drivers.html (on win-raid website)

    (I only read the first 2 pages out of 89!)

    ---[PS. I haven't made enough posts to post links here]


    So it SEEMS do-able. But--jeesh--I'd feel sick to spend so much money and find that the mobo just wouldn't take Win7.

    I'd also hate to have to buy USB on an extension card (but I will if I must).

    Am I safe to proceed?

    Would I increase my chances of success by backstepping and going with a Z370 chipset board instead? ....(I'm assuming that chipset has more available drivers and there are a lot of Win7 success stories with it?)

    (Thank you in advance to all who contribute! )
     
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  2. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

    Jul 26, 2012
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    I have an Asus p8Z77-VPRO and I have to admit I spent a -lot- of money on that system. An Intel I7 quad core unleashed. (3770k) and PC-2400 RAM (32 GB).
    I just dropped a 1TB SSD (860 PRO...Samsung all the way)

    Seasonic also makes a line of fanless power supplies. Definitely worth looking into if you want quiet.
    Just watch the power consumption if you're dropping a high-end graphics card in the box.

    I have Windows 7 ultimate installed, and I see no sense in upgrading my hardware or going to 10.

    I'm running about 115F on my CPU temp, so I'm ready for new Arctic Silver on the CPU heatsink. (The last time was over 2 years ago)

    Bear in mind that, although the processor says "3.5 GHZ", I'm coasting along at about 3.9 GHZ (According to the Asus BIOS)

    BTW: When I first joined here, a number of members helped me to design my dream computer. I'm still using it to this day. :)

    Welcome to MDL, btw. :)
    :welcome2:

    P.S. I clicked "like" because you had no likes, and I wanted to be the first. :D
     
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  3. Joe C

    Joe C MDL Guru

    Jan 12, 2012
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    On a side note for MJ: Arctic MX-4 does not dry out like Arctic Sliver, supposed to be good for up to 8 yrs
     
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  4. digiquandry

    digiquandry MDL Junior Member

    Sep 13, 2015
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    #5 digiquandry, Dec 11, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2018
    (OP)
    @ Micheala Joy

    Thanks for the like! ;)

    I joined in 2015 but have never commented. lol

    Mine's a 4790K. It's been stable as a tank at 4.5GHz now for several years.

    @ the_soft45

    I'm old enough to have actually been an AMD "fanboy." My first build was an AMD Athlon.... "It has 2 cores? Wow!" This was before the Core Duo. But AMD dropped the ball and I've never looked back. Yes, their latest processors are astounding, but until they can drop their thermals an old guy like me isn't interested. At 180 watts (on the low end), I have no interest in a CPU that I can fry an egg on. Nor am I willing to devolve in "single" core performance. Suffice it to say, it will be an Intel build.

    GPU will probably be a 1070.
    80+ Gold -rated power supply.

    @ Joe C

    I've always used the Arctic line-up myself. Not sure if I still have a tube. Might give thermal grizzly a try.

    @ Micheala Joy again.

    115F. I almost spasmed. lol. I'm used to seeing CPU temps in Celcius/ Centigrade.... So I thought, "Wow, that's hot!" lol
     
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  5. toyo

    toyo MDL Member

    Aug 14, 2009
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    You haven't seen the last Intel CPUs. If you thought an AMD FX 8350 is hot, you're in for a huge surprise with recent Intel's like the 8700K, 9700k, 9900K.
    To give you some hints:
    - at stock, my 8700K draws 135W and gets to 75C on a cheaper cooler (prime95, with AVX). A lot of BIOSes will cap your power draw at the TDP, i.e. 95W, expect clocks throttling to respect that.
    - at 4.9GHz, the CPU draws about 150W without AVX on older p95 versions, and it draws 190W+ with AVX. Temps? It will hit 95+ with my cheaper cooler.
    - at 5GHz, unless you truly got lucky with a golden chip able to run at low voltages, you're gonna have to delid the chip if it's the older 8700k, and buy a good cooler, for example Noctua NH D15. Or some 280mm+ AIO.

    Just don't get your hopes up on current Intel chips being cold, cause they're the opposite of that. they're good, they're fast, but they also draw insane amounts of power if allowed BIOS uncapped limits and/or OC.

    IMO you should wait until January/Feb 2019, just in case the 3000 Ryzens are real (they probably aren't in the form they are leaked). And after that, maybe consider the 2700x, which has more cores, runs cooler, comes with a cooler too, is better for productivity vs 8700K - but loses on games at 1080p with powerful GPUs, and if you have something truly powerful like 2080ti, even at 1440p.

    PS: - mini ITX boards typically have bad VRM, and you wanna avoid that.
    - don't expect proper Win 7 support for Z370 and above. My driver section for my MSI Z370 board only has Win 10.
     
  6. digiquandry

    digiquandry MDL Junior Member

    Sep 13, 2015
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    @ toyo

    To quote myself:
    You've got to have big testicles to de-lid right out of the box...which I plan to do.

    Yes, I have done quite a bit of research on the CPU. Is it inferior to the AMDs in multi-threading? Yes. But for MY needs it's a substantial step up from the 4790K because of its multi-thread/rendering potential.

    And I'm not sacrificing clock speed.

    Does it run hotter? Of course: it has 6 cores. Is it still substantially cooler than Ryzen? Yes.

    I started water cooling probably before 2010. I would never use a cheap cooler. I won't do a custom loop this time but a quality AIO will suit my needs just fine.

    Your temps are way too hot and a result of improper implementation.
    Ummmm. Hence, this thread?

    It would be nice if I could have future respondents not trying to spam me with AMD recommendations as opposed to offering qualitative input to my original query.
     
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  7. toyo

    toyo MDL Member

    Aug 14, 2009
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    You're not spammed with anything, you're getting a reasonable recommendation to WAIT, and CONSIDER, because it's worth it. I own a 8700K (it's mentioned in quite a few of my past posts, in case you think I would lie). It's great. It's also not worth buying anymore, Intel's prices went up, Ryzen's went down. Did you inform yourself on the Ryzen 3000 leaks? If they are true (which is not likely, but there's still a chance), you will have 12/24 CPUs available on mainstream at high clocks just like Intel.
    Don't let your previous experiences with AMD influence you in the current market. If you ask opinions on forums, people will tell you what they think, you might not agree with it, move on, but really, don't ask people to fanatically ignore a company just because reasons, when it exists, it does well, and it sold far better than Intel lately too. It's just called not being a fanboy and keeping your feet on the ground.
    Oh, as for Intel's last 9000 series, it's even less worth it than the 8700K. Also i wouldn't take pride in "deliding out of the box" or "never using a cheap cooler". Good for you. A cheaper cooler still allows me to reach 5GHz on a non-dellided 8700K. Why not delided? Because that money is better spend saved for a new CPU, compared to just having -20C temps. The 8700K throttles at 100C and runs even without any cooler whatsoever. In games/normal use even at 5GHz it barely gets to 60C. Only stresstesting would make it go truly hot. Priorities, priorities, better to replace the whole PC more often compared to wasting money on RGB and amazing cooling systems.
     
  8. digiquandry

    digiquandry MDL Junior Member

    Sep 13, 2015
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    #9 digiquandry, Dec 12, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2018
    (OP)
    Yes, it is a shame that the 8700K needs to be de-lidded. I, personally, would not use it in it's stock form. It is essentially the same chip as the 8086K, albeit you don't have one of the cores overclocked and it's not binned.

    But the current price point reflects all this.

    And people have been saying the "wait for the next release!" mantra since I built my first rig around 2003.

    I didn't come to MDL for hardware recommendations (as I'm sure most people don't), but for driver/firmware recommendations from knowledgeable members in the community.

    I'm sure your intentions are beneficent.

    But we're on 2 separate wavelengths.
     
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  9. digiquandry

    digiquandry MDL Junior Member

    Sep 13, 2015
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    (accidental dupe)
     
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  10. Joe C

    Joe C MDL Guru

    Jan 12, 2012
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    Several years ago I had to jump through a couple hoops just to get W7 on a 100 series chipset, I know that there's more involved with installing W7 on a 200 series but it is possible. Currently I would have to seriously consider going through the trouble of getting W7 on a 300 series chipset when after all, W7 is set to expire and the time frame of continuing W7 after that will be dwindling because of no M$ support, other software's will follow that suit. Take note of software support for XP and Vista, Although I do like W7 more than any other O.S. currently, we have to admit that W7's days are numbered
     
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  11. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

    Jul 26, 2012
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    @digiquandry: I have a 6.6 Windows Experience Index on Win7. It's funny that the only thing keeping it from a solid 7.0 is the GPU.

    If I upgrade the GPU, I'd have to upgrade the PSU to stay fanless. I've been thinking about it for a while because I'd like to set up a dual monitor
    system for software testing.

    @Joe C: Thanks for the heads up on Arctic MX-4. :)
     
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  12. piercekalton

    piercekalton MDL Senior Member

    Apr 2, 2010
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    is this AMD or Intel? Intel does go back pretty far.
     
  13. piercekalton

    piercekalton MDL Senior Member

    Apr 2, 2010
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    that is a Direct X issue. not usability.

    if you're playing video games go straight to 10.
     
  14. piercekalton

    piercekalton MDL Senior Member

    Apr 2, 2010
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    they are not going to continue it. these machines will have to be off the internet and archived. buy something else.
     
  15. Omicron16

    Omicron16 MDL Novice

    Jul 1, 2016
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    You can indeed use Windows 7 on the newer Coffee Lake platforms compatible with the 8700k or the 9900k, but you have to stick to one of three chipsets:

    Z370, H310 (I think the C version, H310C,) and the B365 chipset.

    The reason for this is that these chipsets still use the Kaby Lake PCH which means they use the same drivers as the 200 series chipsets for USB. So yes, you can use a 8700k with a Z370 motherboard with Windows 7. You will need to slipstream in the 5.0.4.43 USB 3.0 drivers so that you can use the mouse/keyboard if connected via USB for install.
     
  16. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

    Jul 26, 2012
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    @Omicron16: Thanks for the heads up. At least we know that we have options.

    Or, trying to spam this thread with "just give up and go to Windows 10". :kick:
     
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  17. ThomasMann

    ThomasMann MDL Expert

    Dec 31, 2015
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    mmmmmm..... Do you drive on freeways a lot ? Here is a hint: You are on the website.
     
  18. digiquandry

    digiquandry MDL Junior Member

    Sep 13, 2015
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    #19 digiquandry, Dec 13, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2018
    (OP)
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  19. piercekalton

    piercekalton MDL Senior Member

    Apr 2, 2010
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    good post. I was only trying to light a fire.