Windows Technical Preview Installation Problem Legacy BIOS+MBR

Discussion in 'Windows 10' started by Abhishek Anand, Oct 11, 2014.

  1. Abhishek Anand

    Abhishek Anand MDL Junior Member

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    #1 Abhishek Anand, Oct 11, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2014

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  2. Tito

    Tito Super Mod / Adviser
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    #2 Tito, Oct 11, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2014
    You need to set Execute Disable Bit as Enabled; its a mandatory requirement for x64 Windows since 8.1.

    P.S: Don't create useless posts to boost the post-count.
     
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  3. Abhishek Anand

    Abhishek Anand MDL Junior Member

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    #3 Abhishek Anand, Oct 11, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2014
    (OP)
    First Thank you for replying. :)

    This time, I created the flashable USB drive usin Windows 7 USB/DVD download tool and set the EDB option in Bios as enabled and UEFI mode as Disabled. Even after that, when I try to boot from this drive, (Also tried deleting the efi folder from the drive even then No luck)
    First the cursor flashes for 2-3 times, then the Windows Logo comes without the round animating cursor and it stays like that for ever, It doesn't go further than that... :( :(

    Even I'm so confused and irritated what could be the issue... why does it stuck always... please suggest.
     
  4. Abhishek Anand

    Abhishek Anand MDL Junior Member

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    #4 Abhishek Anand, Oct 11, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2014
    (OP)
    Sorry for doing that but I hope you understand, that was not my intention, I needed to post this thread with those screenshots, which I was not able to without having 20 counts.

    I am really hopeful, that you understand the reason why I had to do that and request u to please suggest further on my problem..
     
  5. Abhishek Anand

    Abhishek Anand MDL Junior Member

    Apr 7, 2013
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    Tried that too mate...but no success.

    Could some one confirm the what exactly should be the settings in BIOS and USB Flashable drive in order to install Windows 10 on my Laptop .

    I would prefer to stay on Legacy BIOS and MBR partition scheme.
     
  6. ChaserLee

    ChaserLee MDL Senior Member

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    I have installed the Windows 10 plain vanilla TP on 3 computer systems now, one desktop, and two laptops. They all had UEFI on them, with the ability to disable UEFI and enable Legacy, as you are wanting to do. What I found to be true, at least for me and the systems I installed on, was that the hard drive, or the SSD, had to be GPT no matter which way I set the BIOS. Even in Legacy mode, when I would start to install, the program would inform me that it would not install to a MBR partion or drive of any kind.

    My solution was to use a DVD bootable partion program first, change the desired partion or drive from MBR to GPT, then shut down the system after removing the DVD. I then plugged in my prepared USB thumb drive, and on the next power up, pressed the appropriate F key to choose what device to boot from. Two out of three computers used the F-12 key. Anyway, choose to boot from your USB thumb drive, and it should boot up and show the normal information screen. When it gets to the install screen, choose Custom, and when the list of drives and partitions appears, choose where you are going to install to, and delete that partition so that it ends up showing as 'Unallocated Space'. Then select that same space, and click on install. Don't do a create new partion, or format, just choose it, and continue with the install. The Windows 10 installation routine will take care of making a couple of small partitions, then create the main partion to install Windows to.

    Watch the progress of the system downloading files from the thumb drive and preparing updates and such. Upon the first reboot, during that short period of time when the system shuts off, before powering on again to reboot, remove the thumb drive, and let the reboot continue.

    Things should go as normal from that point. Devices will be setup, drivers installed, a couple of reboots, and then you'll have to provide some sort of account information to enter the system, whether you use an actual MS account or choose to use a local, non-MS account.

    All that to say this: Doesn't matter if you want to stay with Legacy or UEFI, you need to install to a GPT hard drive or SSD, and you have to make sure that you prepared your thumb drive to be bootable, and make a manual choice to use that device to boot with when you power up the system for installation.

    That's been my experience with 3 computers, anyway. Your mileage may vary..... I wish you well, just hang in there and don't give up, because once you get 10 installed, you'll know it was worth the effort! :)
     
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  7. Abhishek Anand

    Abhishek Anand MDL Junior Member

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    Thanks dear for sharing the info,

    Really Appreciate it. :)

    Besides, the only point I wanted to stay with Legacy is that it wouldn't ask to format my whole drive but if I choose UEFI Enabled, I need to change the file system from MBR to GPT ultimately, will have to make backup of around 360GB of Data on my drive which I don't wanna do.

    But if that's the only option i.e GPT has to be the file system then I'll have to do that then :( because I'm not going to giveup until I have my Lappi running Win 10 smoothly. :p

    So then, if I have to convert to GPT and install Win 10.
    Could you please confirm Steps I need to do should be:

    1. Preparing USB Flash Drive using Rufus tool with below setting:



    • [*=1]Under Format Options, check Create a bootable disk using, click/tap on the browse icon to navigate to and select my WindowsTechnicalPreview-x64-EN-US ISO file.
      [*=1]Under Partition scheme and target system type, select GPT partition scheme for UEFI computer.
      [*=1]Under File system, select FAT32(Default) and Default cluster Size

    2. BIOS Options:
    • UEFI Boot Support Enabled.
    • EDT Enabled
    • PXE OPROM Enabled
    • Setting proper Boot Priority to USB HDD as 1st

    3. Booting with this USB drive and deleting the whole partition and then creating new ones which will be of GPT format.
    Basically two extra sytem drives should be created as per GPT.

    4. Try to Install Win 10 on the partition created for Windows there during Custom Installation.
     
  8. ChaserLee

    ChaserLee MDL Senior Member

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    #9 ChaserLee, Oct 11, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2014
    You are most welcome! I hope you are a female, otherwise calling me "dear" would not be very politically correct here in the USA... well for most men anyways. lol

    Before I can start to answer your questions, I need to know two things... how many hard drives do you have in your laptop? Some can run up to 3 hard drives or SSDs in them.

    If you only have one HDD or SSD in your laptop, does it have more than one partition on it right now? If yes, please inform me of how many partitions, and the size of each partion, yes? For example, if you only have one drive in the laptop, but you partitioned it into 2 partitions, the first partition having the OS on it, and the second partition having saved data and such on it, then it won't be as bad as you think it might be.

    Then I can answer all your questions correctly. Hopefully, depending on your answers, you won't have to backup 360GB of data. More to come when you reply....

    Chaser
     
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  9. Abhishek Anand

    Abhishek Anand MDL Junior Member

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    #10 Abhishek Anand, Oct 11, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2014
    (OP)
    Sure mate:
    My Lappi comes with only 500GB HDD no SSD which I have divided into three partitions:

    C:Windows:65.3GB
    D:40GB
    E:360GB
    350 MB of invisible system partition is also there which gets created automatically as per MBR partition scheme.

    I also have a 2TB external USB HardDisk from WD which I use often. If I would need to backup the data then I'll have to copy the entire 360GB data here in this HDD only which might take some time as my Lappi doesn't support USB3.0. :(
     
  10. ChaserLee

    ChaserLee MDL Senior Member

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    #11 ChaserLee, Oct 11, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2014
    Excellent!! This won't be as difficult as you might have thought it would be.

    As I posted, you need to change your drive from MBR to GPT. I have done this many times without losing any information or files at all, and it was painless and quick. I used Mini Tool Partition Wizard Home to make the change, but I believe the EaseUS Partition program will do the same task. Or, you might already have a good partition program burned to CD or DVD that you've used before.

    The point is, boot with the Partition program of your choice from your DVD drive. Then right click on the first part of the display for the drive, the part that tells you what size the entire disk is, and what name it has, if any. The way Mini Tool works is that when you right click, you'll see an option to convert the drive from MBR to GPT. Some programs will just list that option on a sidebar when you click on the drive header. Don't click on any of the partitions, just the header for the entire drive. I have converted many disks, both HDDs and SSDs from MBR to GPT, and not lost a single file. So, you won't have to format your entire disk after all, just change the filesystem of it. After it converts from MBR to GPT, you'll still have the same partitions, with the same data on them.

    After you accomplish that task, then you are ready to install Windows 10.

    You asked me to confirm the steps. From what I read, you have steps 1 and 2 correct. Step 3 is incorrect. For step 3, you need to choose the device to boot from, the USB thumb drive, and when you get to the Custom Install screen that shows your hard drive, you ONLY want to delete your first partion, the C: partion of 65.3GB. That's the ONLY thing you do, just delete that partion, and leave it as "Unallocated Space". Do NOT format it, do not feed it donuts, and do not let it watch tv. lol The reason is because you already converted the entire drive to GPT using the partion program, so it's already good to go. Just leave it Unallocated, then click on the empty 65.3GB of empty space, and then click the 'NEXT' button at the bottom right to install the Win10TP. As I said, the installation will take care of everything from there, making a couple of partions and formatting them in the manner it needs to for a correct install. This process covers your Step 4 question. Just let the install routine handle things after you choose to install on the empty unallocated space.

    This way, you still retain everything on your D: partion and your E: partion. After Win10 installs, you should be able to access whatever is on those partions without any problems. You will of course have to install your programs again on the C: partion, but the data on D and E will still be there for you to use.

    The main thing is getting your system to boot from the USB thumb drive. As you said, if you set up the boot order correctly in the BIOS settings, it might just boot from the USB automatically. However, on some systems, even when you set the boot order, it still won't boot from the USB drive unless you gain access to the boot menu during startup, and pick the USB drive specifically to boot from.

    I hope all that was clear and understandable. If not, just keep asking questions. That's the way we all learn things, ask questions, then determine if the answers are valid or not. I assure you, after having done the TP install 3 times on UEFI systems, my answers are valid. ;)

    Chaser
     
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  11. Abhishek Anand

    Abhishek Anand MDL Junior Member

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    #12 Abhishek Anand, Oct 11, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2014
    (OP)
    Thanks Chaser,
    two points I wanted to share and confirm:
    1. Even I use to use Minitool partition wizard Home Edition :) but have never done MBR to GPT kind of stuff.
    So, as u said when I open the app right click on my First Basic Drive which basically is my Laptop's HDD containing all my partitions C,D and E; there is a option for Convert MBR to GPT. I should check this and then press the apply button which executes the process.
    2. As far as
    is concerned,
    I'm not sure how to gain access to get to that option where it would ask me to pick the USB drive."

    I have never seen such screen on my Lappi.
    Earlier I simply used to make it as 1st under Boot Priority and it would boot from it then. But, since I haven't been able to even boot using the Win10 bootable USB drive yet (as it use to stuck at Windows logo when UEFI is disabled or when enabled it stucks after loading files as I shared in the first post, though I was on MBR till then),
    How do I confirm that I have booted from it only ...

    Hope I'm clear :)
     
  12. ChaserLee

    ChaserLee MDL Senior Member

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    #13 ChaserLee, Oct 11, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2014
    Yes, you are crystal clear!

    Number 1 is exactly correct, that is the method you would use.

    Number 2 varies from system to system. I have one laptop that I have to hold down the F12 key while the system boots, in order to gain access to the boot menu, where I can pick which device to boot from. On another system, I have to hold down the F9 key while it boots up. On a computer I repaired for someone, I had to hold the Esc key while it booted. It varies from system to system, but I would start with F12, then if that doesn't work, try the F9 option.

    If worse comes to worse, you could Google the method to gain access to the boot menu using the name and model of your laptop. You should get some results that way...

    So, 1st use a partion program to convert your drive to GPT. Second, find out how to access your boot menu. Third, insert the USB thumb drive, start your computer, access the boot menu, choose the USB drive, then do the rest of what I have posted. You should have success!

    Chaser


    UPDATE: I just thought of another way to choose your USB drive to boot from, if you are running windows 8.1 already. If you are, go to your charms bar, select Change PC Settings at the bottom, then select Update & Recovery, then select Recovery, then select Advanced Startup and click the Restart Now button. That will restart windows 8.1 where you have the option to choose which device to boot from. If all else fails, you could use this method.
     
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  13. Abhishek Anand

    Abhishek Anand MDL Junior Member

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    Sure mate.
    I'll do the conversion first and then find a way to gain that access to choose to boot from .
    Will keep you posted. :)

    Besides,
    I'm not a female. Here in India we use dear sometimes with males as well just to show affection in good sense obviously ;)
     
  14. Abhishek Anand

    Abhishek Anand MDL Junior Member

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    #15 Abhishek Anand, Oct 11, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2014
    (OP)
    Hey mate,
    when I select the option Convert MBR Disk to GPT Disk, It gives a popup saying

    "This disk contains System partition and convert this disk to GPT style will cause your system to be unbootable"

    Does this mean I won't be able to boot next time when i restart my system(until I install Win10 TP)

    I have tried this option earlier, I'm on Win 8.1 Pro x64 but I never see that option to select where to boot from in Recovery. I have read about this on google, people say this option wd be available only for UEFI computers.

    I am wondering now,
    Does this mean since I was on Legacy Bios or UEFI but with MBR file system, I was not having this option. And If I convert to GPT and have UEFI enabled in Bios then i should also see that option there.
     
  15. ChaserLee

    ChaserLee MDL Senior Member

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    I was only joking about that. I have a strange sense of humor sometimes, but I was not offended, but only trying to inject some humor into the thread. All is good !! :biggrin:
     
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  16. Abhishek Anand

    Abhishek Anand MDL Junior Member

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    Haha :biggrin: same here. I get it :)
     
  17. ChaserLee

    ChaserLee MDL Senior Member

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    OK, before you change the MBR to GPT, go into your bios and select running the computer in UEFI mode, not Legacy. Legacy won't usually boot from a GPT disk, unless it was already GPT when you installed the current OS. In any event, make SURE that your USB drive is ready to go for installation, just in case you run into trouble along the way. In that case, if you can't boot back to your 8.1 install, you'll still be able to install Win10 TP by using the boot menu on startup, before the computer even tried to access your hard drive.

    And yes, once you are using UEFI, you should be able to see that option there. I forgot you were using Legacy, which as you already know, uses the BIOS as the boot menu to determine which devices to boot from 1st, 2end, and so on. Once you start using UEFI, your first boot order entry in the bios should be the 'Boot Manager' , then list others as you wish.

    Go forth, and conquer!

    Chaser
     
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  18. Abhishek Anand

    Abhishek Anand MDL Junior Member

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    Sure buddy.
    thank u. :)
    I have two flashable USB drives ready one with Windows 8.1 x64 and other with Win 10 TP x64.
    So hope that I have enough options to come around if I get into some trouble.

    One more thing I'm getting curious about is:
    Having UEFI means what exactly:
    1. UEFI Enabled in Bios with any partition scheme MBR or GPT.
    OR
    2. UEFI Enabled in Bios with mandatory GPT partition.

    I think its option two as I have tried with enabling UEFI on MBR filesystem and trying to boot and failed. So, it has to be option two. M I right.
     
  19. ChaserLee

    ChaserLee MDL Senior Member

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    Absolutely right, except the entire disk has to be GPT, not just the OS installation partition! I believe you are starting to understand this UEFI stuff now. :biggrin:
     
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