Although Windows 11 Shares The Same Kernel Version As 10, They Are Internally Different, Right?

Discussion in 'Windows 11' started by PolidelticusFire, Jul 19, 2021.

  1. PolidelticusFire

    PolidelticusFire MDL Addicted

    May 7, 2020
    549
    231
    30
    Both are NT 10.0 (for now)... (I guess this initial 21H2 release will remain at 10.0)...

    But...

    The jump from 10.0.1904x.xxx and 10.0.22000.xxx is quite large...

    So I imagine that Windows 11 is really quite different from 10 also on an internal level -- not just in the UI -- right?

    And well, we can't say it's a rebranded Win10 21H2 because that is part of the same old Vibranium codebase, and build 19044.

    Or is it just wishful thinking of mine?
     
  2. crossup

    crossup MDL Member

    Jun 20, 2015
    115
    153
    10
    Its just windows 10, but with a worse UI. Same toilet, just different sh*t.
     
  3. abbodi1406

    abbodi1406 MDL KB0000001

    Feb 19, 2011
    13,139
    64,327
    340
    The jump from 21390 to 21990 is not large
    and i doubt they will jump NT 10.0 version soon

    P.S. are you on a mission to fill Windows 11 forum with a topic daily?
     
  4. acer-5100

    acer-5100 MDL Addicted

    Dec 8, 2018
    705
    455
    30
    Anyway most of the invisible changes made in the last decade aren't mentioned anywhere

    For one try to find a MS document that explains the changes made to the deduplication after win8, after win8.1 and after 1607

    Try to find what MS changed to the graphic stack after 1507 and after 1803.

    You notice them maybe after six months or when you have a machine with old drivers that don't work anymore.

    I'm sure W11 has a good share of changes under the hood, but we will never get a comprehensive changelog.
     
  5. PolidelticusFire

    PolidelticusFire MDL Addicted

    May 7, 2020
    549
    231
    30
    Sorry...
     
  6. Mr.X

    Mr.X MDL Guru

    Jul 14, 2013
    8,232
    15,388
    270
    :tooth:
     
  7. Jaffar

    Jaffar MDL Member

    Jul 10, 2015
    212
    118
    10
    Every time there is a major Windows 10 update some hardware companies like Intel and Nvidia will release new drivers to support it

    And this is what also happened with Windows 11

    I'm not an expert but I don't think they will need to update their drivers if it's the same thing with just new features and new UI
     
  8. PointZero

    PointZero MDL Member

    Oct 5, 2011
    1,386
    3,707
    60
    @PolidelticusFire: To counter to abbodi1406's view- I think the threads you've created recently have been fine and I've enjoyed reading about the topics you've brought up.

    I did like abbodi1406's post above (because I appreciate everything he does here at MDL) but I think your doing great in creating threads.
     
  9. crossup

    crossup MDL Member

    Jun 20, 2015
    115
    153
    10
    At this point, there is no significant structural difference between W10 and W11, that would warrant new drivers. The only two reasons hardware companies will release new drivers are 1) many dumdums will scream "where is W11 driver"? So they will release new drivers just to shut them up. 2) The arbitrary hardware requirements like processer, WDDM and secure boot were probably spearheaded by Intel and the likes to push new hardware sales. So, they will be more than happy to release new drivers to push W11 adoption.
     
  10. murphy78

    murphy78 MDL DISM Enthusiast

    Nov 18, 2012
    7,316
    11,471
    240
    It would actually shock me if they were very different internally. Think about what that would mean for the priorities of the company for the last few years where they've been working on these two different versions simultaneously. Would they intentionally hamstring Windows 10 with severe performance flaws beyond just a potential Directx sales feature just to make Windows 11 better? That would be very noticeable. People would have noticed it starting a couple years ago and would refuse to use the newer builds because they couldn't keep up with previous builds.

    There is an aspect to new operating systems that some people get hung up on. Sometimes they do perform better on newer hardware, but worse on older hardware. This was the case with win8 vs win7. For people who had the absolute latest hardware, Win8 was the best performance you could get. For others who maybe had a slightly older system but upgraded to a newer graphics card, they swore by win7. Neither camp were right or wrong. It just depended on the hardware, but win8 did have something different under the hood. It's different with win11 because win10 has been developed alongside the whole time. With the possible exception of the Directx features like Direct Storage, I can't imagine any real advantage to using win11 over win10. And like the win8 situation before it, it's very picky to get that hardware advantage. Games have to support it. Your system needs to use a NVME SSD with at least 1TB space. For most users, I can't imagine they will EVER use this feature. I almost certainly won't.
     
  11. aelgohary94

    aelgohary94 MDL Novice

    Nov 19, 2018
    44
    7
    0
    Microsoft changed Windows 10 NT version from 6.4 to 10 while it's just a polished Windows 8.1. Dude all versions after Windows Vista are just tweaked versions of Windows Vista.
    Windows 11 = Windows 10 21H2
     
  12. acer-5100

    acer-5100 MDL Addicted

    Dec 8, 2018
    705
    455
    30
    So WSL, WSL2, WSL2, vhdx support, native vhd boot, containers, virtualization based security, hybrid boot, DX12, and so on, appeared magically just rubbing a bit Vista? :rolleyes:

    Come on! Stop parrotting stereotypes. Obviously everything is an evolution of Win NT3, then there where smaller and larger steps over time, but no way they will do another revolution, no way MS reinvents the wheel for a second time, maybe they will start to use a heavily customized linux kernel, but that would be a work mostly done by someone else.
     
  13. stesmi

    stesmi MDL Novice

    Aug 15, 2009
    3
    3
    0
    One thing that's upgraded (I'm sure there are more) is the upgraded storage stack, and those will (supposedly) require new drivers. DirectStorage (from Xbox Series S/X) will be available in both Win10 and Win11, but the Win10 one (which uses the older storage stack) will not be as fast as the Win11 one. I haven't delved into this much, however.

    EDIT: Yes, It's my third post ever, even though I've lurked forever, so feel free to ignore me.
     
  14. Dude Guyman

    Dude Guyman MDL Member

    Jun 20, 2017
    167
    120
    10
    Hahaha, yep. Take windows 10 and add an extra click or two for everything you want to get done, not unlike the jump from XP to 7, and 7 to 10. Just more and more obfuscated and clunky. Spaghetti code on top or more spaghetti code.
     
  15. Carlos Detweiller

    Carlos Detweiller MDL Spinning Tortoise

    Dec 21, 2012
    4,992
    5,177
    150
    Mostly features developed on top of the OS. They could have as well been released for Vista.
     
  16. acer-5100

    acer-5100 MDL Addicted

    Dec 8, 2018
    705
    455
    30
    What's your definition of "on top" ?

    For me on top means userland (browsers, themes, utilities, GUI refinements)

    Everything I mentioned above requires kernel drivers and mods. If was that easy I had already backported the deduplication on Win7 or WSL on 10240, but is not.
     
  17. Carlos Detweiller

    Carlos Detweiller MDL Spinning Tortoise

    Dec 21, 2012
    4,992
    5,177
    150
    Emphasize on "Mostly". MS could easily establish the kernel hooks and extensions needed to run the features on Vista. Even if we can't.

    Doesn't apply to XP and below, it is fundamentally different.
     
  18. acer-5100

    acer-5100 MDL Addicted

    Dec 8, 2018
    705
    455
    30
    Who said that doesn't apply?
    The older is the OS that needs a back-port the harder is the work to do, but there isn't really a border between vista and xp.

    The only great difference between Vista and XP kernel are about the WDDM drivers which are implemented mostly on the kernel level on XP and mostly user level on Vista+
    But that was, strictly speaking, a step backward in the name of the stability over performance.

    NT3 x had user level drivers as well, kernel level drivers were introduced by NT4 (and sold at the time as a huge improvement).
     
  19. case-sensitive

    case-sensitive MDL Expert

    Nov 7, 2013
    1,122
    450
    60
    What a load of crap . Everything since win xp is just xp with things plonked on top . And xp uis just win 95 with things improved . They are not new products . Thats easy to see if you use PE editions . The layout iand registry are virtualy the same but without the bloat from later editions .
     
  20. acer-5100

    acer-5100 MDL Addicted

    Dec 8, 2018
    705
    455
    30
    You have no idea of what you're talking about, isn't it?

    XP and W95 have in common less than what a diesel and a gasoline car have.

    But likely you are too young and so you missed a lot of episodes of this "tv series" :D