[DISCUSSION] Patch WMC to run on Windows 10 final & possible alternatives

Discussion in 'Windows 10' started by ricktendo64, May 8, 2015.

  1. j.c.f.

    j.c.f. MDL Junior Member

    Mar 1, 2016
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    Just goosed the sacrificial laptop into installing 1909 without removing WMC and it survived the process (quite brief as reported elsewhere so nothing like the usual version update stupidity). Had to reinstall the old 1709 DLLs, the thumbnail DLL survived but playback was borked till the DLLs were reinstalled. Interestingly my software that peeks at the version number of kernel32.dll still reports the same build number as 1903 (10.0.18362) and not the 10.0.18363 that Wikipedia thinks 1909 should have but Settings / System / About certainly says 1909...
     
  2. j.c.f.

    j.c.f. MDL Junior Member

    Mar 1, 2016
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    #9762 j.c.f., Dec 2, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019
    You can do it with an unrouted subnet and dual homing your 1511 machine. Assuming you've got a NAT home network already using 192.168/16 you can use the 10/8 subnet that your NAT router should not route (so manually give the win7 box 10.0.0.2 say) and then add another IP to the win10 box (say 10.0.0.3) and the win10 box should be able to see the win7 box over that interface and the win7 box shouldn't be able to see anything else except the win10 box and the win10 box should be able to see the internet over it's existing 192.168 interface. Google dual homing for win10, it's been a few years since I set boxes up with this and I'm fairly sure it was before win10 existed so details are in the air.
     
  3. Bigal

    Bigal MDL Member

    Mar 4, 2011
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    What about new win10 with a virtual win7?
    I've been considering this as i miss a lot of my win xp/7 only games
     
  4. j.c.f.

    j.c.f. MDL Junior Member

    Mar 1, 2016
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    #9764 j.c.f., Dec 3, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019
    Just fired up the Virtual Box win7 VM I use to test my stuff on and indeed WMC does fire up however I was unable to get it to play back files recorded on my w10 machines (even though they're all using the 1709 DLLs), fails with the Decoder Error. Wouldn't even play it's own Landscape demo thing. Beyond that a big problem I found with the VM was getting access to local machines on the network, extremely sketchy set of setup steps needed, I've no doubt it's possible to do but good luck, I choose other walls to hurdle to solve the problems I needed to solve. And on top of that there's probably going to be fun and games getting a full screen experience out of the thing, you'll have to set Virtual Box to be full screen and then maybe you'd be able to get it but you have to set the VM's screen size and so on so more gerfingerpoken, but probably possible.
     
  5. Bigal

    Bigal MDL Member

    Mar 4, 2011
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    Thanks for the heads up, If and when I do a win 7 VM, it will be just for games then :)
     
  6. j.c.f.

    j.c.f. MDL Junior Member

    Mar 1, 2016
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    Yeah, I think the reason WMC failed to run is because it's an earlier version of WMC than the ones we run in that they all came from win 8. Although I guess that doesn't explain why it couldn't play it's built in Landscape thing I suppose. Anyway rather than try a win7 VM I'd be thinking about a win8.1 one instead. The thing feels like it'll work and at least with 8.1 you can use our packages.
     
  7. Bigal

    Bigal MDL Member

    Mar 4, 2011
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    If it aint broke, dont fix it, is where im at....
    my rig is about 6 years old and my 2.5" 125GB OS SSD is nearly full.
    it does everything i need but been thinking of upgrading and going 65" 4k...
     
  8. win7fans

    win7fans MDL Novice

    May 1, 2016
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    Thanks j.c.f. So, for now, I have a Win7 machine on my Internet, with only two programs easily available to the user (epg123 and WMC). I turned off WMC internet update, and the only program now accessing the Internet is epg123 - at least that's what I think. I guess I will have to completely shut down Windows Update in January. I also added a VPN. I have RF remote that easily changes between that computer and my 1909 Win10. So, if I want to watch LIVE TV. I can at the click of a button.

    My question, now, is do you think the my Win7 machine is secure?
     
  9. win7fans

    win7fans MDL Novice

    May 1, 2016
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    I see a law suit against Microsoft. Basically, they hooked people on WMC (behaviorally), and then stopped supporting the OLD OS it worked on and Broke it in the NEW OS. Now, users will not stop using the old OS and that puts their computer, personal files, indentity, bank info, etc. all at risk. The question for the jury to answer, is does Microsoft have a responsibility to the community that bought their products? That is, they do not need to keep supporting an OS, but should they not allow support for WMC and cable cards in their new OS? If nothing else, shouldn't they allow third party developers to be able to make WMC work in Win10 and see cable card tuners?

    People have a lot of money invested in hardware made useless by Microsoft. According to Kaspersky. 38% of consumers were still using Windows 7 as of September. 2019, as were a similar percent of small business owners. Almost 50% of enterprise users are stuck on Windows 7. People who use Windows 7 at work will probably use it at home, especially if they have been using WMC as their media center. So, basically, millions of Microsoft users will be put at tremendous risk in January, when support ends.

    There might be arguments in favor of Microsoft, were it not for the fact that disconnecting the tuners only serves to make their market for Xbox larger. There are companies, for example, that make software specifically to see USB devices like the Ceton tuners across the network, with great stability. Of course, there are other ways, but none of that is worthwhile, if Microsoft disconnects the tuners on its end. At this point, it would seem Microsoft is guilty of unfair business practices along with negligence in leaving people they hooked on WMC at risk with no reasonable alternative. Note, most other daily-use programs will work in Win10 - we know them all - no need to list. Microsoft is not going to say you CANNOT type something in Word and send it over the network to be recognized by another Word program - that's ridiculous.

    The eventual question for juries will be why did Microsoft break support for cable card users, when so many have been behaviorally hooked on watching TV (an almost daily activity for most Americans) using WMC and cable cards, bought extra hardware to accommodate cable cards, bought a Microsoft OS, all just to have Microsoft leave them at risk for any number of catastrophes? How does Microsoft explain they have the patent and do not want to let others use the software to help so many millions of Americans avoid catastrophe? It's obvious that every old computer or laptop could be an xbox extender, if they could only connect to the tuners and run WMC. BTW, one's laptop would be an extender without any stupid box, cables, or electrical outlet.This was all possible in the past, why did Microsoft screw all of its patrons? Why put them all at risk? If Win7 machines are hacked, how many will transfer the malware via email to other people

    I do not believe a jury would accept "read the fine print, we can do whatever we want to do."

    Think of how many people using Microsoft products have been alienated over the years. It seems Microsoft has an uncanny ability to screw things up. Indeed, the guy who opted for NEW Coke instead of old Coke-Cola must be way up in the Microsoft hierarchy. Take Windows Office 2019. To set up Outlook, many people need to enter a username to log on to their web hosting domain provider, where their email goes. That username is not the same as one"s email address. I have been doing this for years. This year, with 2019, no place to enter the info - wonder why? It's either stupidity, incompetence, or an effort to shift users to another platform? Amazingly, they had to go out of their way to delete code from a form used successfully for years. Equally amazing, there is a workaround using something for 2016 in control panel, but one would not know it, if it were not for all of the great people on these message boards. My point is how many of those jurors are going to be upset with Microsoft before being impaneled on the jury?

    BTW, the free upgrade doesn't matter, when the upgrade is not really an upgrade of ALL existing features, and deletes support for one of the main features for which many people use their computers. Users get email on their phones, text on their phones, search the Internet on their phones, shop on their phones, and can take their phones with them. For the vast majority, the only thing a computer is good for is a big screen for the Office suites from WordPerfect and Microsoft, AND as a Media Center for the home.

    Interested in comments....
     
  10. Whiznot

    Whiznot MDL Member

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    I'm pretty sure that cablecard works with Windows 10 if there is a dvr application and a schedule subscription. What's gone is the ability to record or play protected content. Filthy rich folk protect their monopolies.
     
  11. j.c.f.

    j.c.f. MDL Junior Member

    Mar 1, 2016
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  12. win7fans

    win7fans MDL Novice

    May 1, 2016
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    Well, I have not found anyone using Ceton Cable cards with WMC on later volumes of Win10. I was using everything fine in Win10 1511, but that, too, was nearing end of support. I would be happy to learn of anyone actually using Ceton/cable card, WMC, and Win10 1909.
     
  13. win7fans

    win7fans MDL Novice

    May 1, 2016
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    JCF, Thanks again. I guess between now and January I will have to take a serious look at multi homing.
     
  14. win7fans

    win7fans MDL Novice

    May 1, 2016
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    Whiznot, I may have read your post too quickly. Indeed, I believe you are correct in saying cable cards work in Win10. They do show up and they are tuning channels. The problem is that even if one installs one of the work-around versions of WMC, WMC cannot see the tuners. That is on Microsoft, and that is precisely why so many people (millions) will hold onto their Win7 machines (I have two). That one very simple fix (WMC seeing cable card tuners) would help the security of millions. In fact, such a fix would probably be the most important anti-virus solution to come around in a long, long time.
     
  15. j.c.f.

    j.c.f. MDL Junior Member

    Mar 1, 2016
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    I wouldn't be so sure about "millions". MS themselves quote WMC usage as "trvial" when justifying discontinuation of it, personally I give it maybe tens of thousands and likely much less as it sounds like there's just one server serving up MS's guide data. My personal theory for them wanting to can WMC is that they were tired of paying MPEG royalties on every copy of Windows sold, but I think MPEG LA just let those royalty requirements lapse, grr. Certainly wanting to keep using WMC is a reason for people to not give up win7 but hardware has always been the primary reason people don't upgrade to their new OSes. Nothing pissed me off more than having to ditch a perfectly nice printer just because MS have decided to abandon an old driver model. You wanna try writing software for Windows, MS come along and gaily announce that the way everything should be done is using COM say, as they did back in the days when DirectX was first conceived. A few years later that tribe is no longer in power and MS deprecates it. Was particularly apropos that a few years after than that new tribe fell out of favor and COM came roaring back.

    Either way, MS is not going to invest time and money setting up another group to develop WMC, most we can hope for is that they release the source code for it as they've done for one or two other things but given how it ties into cable card stuff they may not be able to do so from a legal perspective.