1. acer-5100

    acer-5100 MDL Guru

    Dec 8, 2018
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  2. acer-5100

    acer-5100 MDL Guru

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    Sure they are.

    You are talking about the hard linked files, but in such case the number wouldn't be 11GB, would be, as in the screenshots above, 14GB or so

    Don't confuse the miscalculation done by Explorer with the real space taken at block level

    BTW you can reach the same conclusion, just looking at the size of the MFP package, it's in the range of 120/150MB when compressed, once it's expanded you are back in the 400/500MB range.

    No matter how you put it, math don't lie.
     
  3. murphy78

    murphy78 MDL DISM Enthusiast

    Nov 18, 2012
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    You'd be surprised how small it can be. A lot of the files on the winsxs stuff stay compressed and if they are similar enough and in the same package, they can be very small on the disk.
    I don't have a vm installed at the moment but if you really want to get the actual number it would be interesting to know the difference in raw vhd disk size.
     
  4. acer-5100

    acer-5100 MDL Guru

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    #1585 acer-5100, Jan 3, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2022

    It's not just matter of codecs, they are small, but there are also many video files used to benchmark the system (the thing used to give a rating in w7), there is the whole windows media player (which is not just the exe alone) and so on.

    No need to waste your time applying the image to a vhd you'll get what dism/imagex are telling.

    BTW just download the MFP yourself and unpack it with 7zip. I have handy only the one for 10240 (which is smaller than following releases, as usual) and unpacked is 316 MB, the newer W10 is the larger the mfp will be. For sure it's not 50MB (the video files alone are about 20MB)
     
  5. Carlos Detweiller

    Carlos Detweiller Emperor of Ice-Cream

    Dec 21, 2012
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    Does that mean that without WinSAT media files and Media Player, establishing a WEI (Windows Experience Index) does always fail on N versions?
     
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  6. acer-5100

    acer-5100 MDL Guru

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    Not tested personally, so I'm not sure if WEI does fail only some tests or is not available at all, for sure if the media components are included in MFP it's because they are missing from N images.
     
  7. Carlos Detweiller

    Carlos Detweiller Emperor of Ice-Cream

    Dec 21, 2012
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    So, what would any sane man do? Installing Windows 10 N and checking!

    Result: WinSAT still runs on Windows 10 N, it seems to just skip over the media tests (runtime of 0:00:00).
     
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  8. murphy78

    murphy78 MDL DISM Enthusiast

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    You're suggesting that uncompressing files that normally are compressed in your system are large? Help me follow this logic.
     
  9. sen7inel

    sen7inel MDL Novice

    Oct 6, 2018
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    An interesting find - On reinstall attempt, when running setup from within Windows, there was no choice of LTSC / LTSC N. It just assumed I wanted to re-install LTSC N. This is unlike when I initially installed (both N and non-N options were available). I had to boot directly off the disc in order to be able to pick non-N version.
     
  10. acer-5100

    acer-5100 MDL Guru

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    Come on! What's wrong in saying "sorry you were right?"
    We can discuss for a week about personal opinions or preferences or about politics, but I can't see any point about discussing about proven facts, about easily verifiable numbers.
    The image of N is 460MB smaller of the non N. Period!
    Who cares if files are compressed or not? (they aren't, obviously). They take 460MB
    Verify that by yourself instead of arguing just for the sake of arguing.
     
  11. acer-5100

    acer-5100 MDL Guru

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    To do an in place upgrade you had to edit HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion
    N and non N are considered different OSes just like Pro v.s. Enterprise, so w/o that mod even if you had the initial choice you couldn't keep your apps and settings.
     
  12. murphy78

    murphy78 MDL DISM Enthusiast

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    It very well could be more than 50mb, but I doubt it's very much more than that. You'd be surprised how small the footprint of an entire install is. They clock in under 5gb. Changing one package in that install does not reduce the size a whole lot.
     
  13. xinso

    xinso MDL Guru

    Mar 5, 2009
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    #1594 xinso, Jan 4, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2022
    It depends on C:\Windows\servicing\Editions\UpgradeMatrix.xml.

    Easy workarounds :
    a. modify EditionID (as you mentioned).
    b. modify UpgradeMatrix.xml.
     
  14. AveYo

    AveYo MDL Expert

    Feb 10, 2009
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    Have we not discussed this a long time ago and the UpgradeMatrix.xml was a no-go? Maybe changing it on the wim indexes, but certainly not the one in live os - so not easy
     
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  15. xinso

    xinso MDL Guru

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    #1596 xinso, Jan 4, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2022
    Well, that is one of my three solutions that are working for me. (after all I did not take part in the discussion.)
     
  16. AveYo

    AveYo MDL Expert

    Feb 10, 2009
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    Well, I've been relying on EditionID ping-pong in my auto.cmd - part of MediaCreationTool.bat to facilitate upgrade keeping files and apps
    My "matrix" is simple and I do deploy minimal safeguards for interrupted setups (to restore original EditionID), but it still kinda clumsy and I would venture using a better alternative.

    Code:
    ::# get requested edition in EI.cfg or PID.txt or OPTIONS
    if exist product.ini for /f "tokens=1,2 delims==" %%O in (product.ini) do if not "%%P" equ "" (set pid_%%O=%%P& set pn_%%P=%%O)
    set EI=& set Name=& set nID=& set reg=& set "cfg_filter=EditionID Channel OEM Retail Volume _Default VL 0 1 ^$"
    if exist EI.cfg for /f "tokens=*" %%i in ('findstr /v /i /r "%cfg_filter%" EI.cfg') do (set EI=%%i& set nID=%%i)
    if exist PID.txt for /f "delims=;" %%i in (PID.txt) do set %%i 2>nul
    if not defined Value for %%s in (%OPTIONS%) do if defined pn_%%s (set Name=!pn_%%s!& set Name=!Name:gvlk=!)
    if defined Value if not defined Name for %%s in (%Value%) do (set Name=!pn_%%s!& set Name=!Name:gvlk=!)
    if defined EDITION_SWITCH (set nID=%EDITION_SWITCH%) else if defined Name for %%s in (%Name%) do (set nID=%Name%)
    if not defined nID set nID=%EditionID%& if not defined EditionID set nID=Professional& set EditionID=Professional
    if /i "%EditionID%" equ "%nID%" (set changed=) else set changed=1
    
    ::# upgrade matrix to automatically fallback to an edition that would keep files and apps
    set HOME=Starter HomeBasic HomePremium CoreConnectedCountrySpecific CoreConnectedSingleLanguage CoreConnected Core
    set HOME_N=StarterN HomeBasicN HomePremiumN CoreConnectedN CoreN & set HOME_S=CoreSingleLanguage CoreCountrySpecific
    set ULT=Ultimate ProfessionalStudent ProfessionalCountrySpecific ProfessionalSingleLanguage& set CLOUD=Cloud
    set ULT_N=UltimateN ProfessionalStudentN& set CLOUD_N=CloudN
    set EDU=Education& set ENT=Enterprise& set LTS=EnterpriseG EnterpriseS IoTEnterpriseS Embedded& set IOT=IoTEnterprise
    set EDU_N=EducationN& set ENT_N=EnterpriseN& set LTS_N=EnterpriseGN EnterpriseSN
    set PRO=ProfessionalEducation ProfessionalWorkstation Professional& set MIX=%ENT% %EDU% !PRO! %CLOUD%
    set PRO_N=ProfessionalEducationN ProfessionalWorkstationN ProfessionalN& set MIX_N=%ENT_N% %EDU_N% !PRO_N! %CLOUD_N%
    for %%C in (%LTS_N%)  do if /i %%C equ %nID% (set nID=EnterpriseN)
    for %%C in (%LTS%)    do if /i %%C equ %nID% (set nID=Enterprise)
    for %%C in (%ULT_N%)  do if /i %%C equ %nID% (set nID=ProfessionalN)
    for %%C in (%ULT%)    do if /i %%C equ %nID% (set nID=Professional)
    for %%C in (%MIX_N%)  do if /i %%C equ %nID% (set nID=ProfessionalN& set reg=%%C& if defined i_%%C set nID=%%C)
    for %%C in (%MIX%)    do if /i %%C equ %nID% (set nID=Professional&  set reg=%%C& if defined i_%%C set nID=%%C)
    for %%C in (%HOME_N%) do if /i %%C equ %nID% (set nID=CoreN& set reg=CoreN& if not defined i_CoreN set nID=ProfessionalN)
    for %%C in (%HOME%)   do if /i %%C equ %nID% (set nID=Core&  set reg=Core&  if not defined i_Core  set nID=Professional)
    for %%C in (%HOME_S%) do if /i %%C equ %nID% (set nID=Core& set reg=%%C& if defined i_%%C set nID=%%C)
    for %%C in (%IOT%)    do if /i %%C equ %nID% (set nID=Enterprise& set reg=%%C)
    set index=& for /l %%i in (1,1,%w_count%) do if /i !i_%%i! equ !nID! (set nID=!i_%%i!& set index=%%i)
    if not defined index set index=1& set nID=!i_1!& if defined i_Professional set index=!i_Professional!& set nID=Professional
    set Build=!b_%index%!& set OPTIONS=%OPTIONS% /ImageIndex %index%& if defined changed if not defined reg (set reg=!nID!)
    echo;Current edition: %EditionID% & echo;Regedit edition: %reg% & echo;Index: %index%  Image: %nID%
     
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  17. xinso

    xinso MDL Guru

    Mar 5, 2009
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    #1598 xinso, Jan 4, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2022
    Good job. Thank you..
     
  18. f23948

    f23948 MDL Member

    Nov 29, 2017
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    I heard 2019 LTSC non IoT product key works on 2021 LTSC non IoT?
     
  19. Enthousiast

    Enthousiast MDL Tester

    Oct 30, 2009
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