[DISCUSSION] Windows 10 Technical Preview Build 9926

Discussion in 'Windows 10' started by Tito, Jan 23, 2015.

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  1. PGHammer

    PGHammer MDL Senior Member

    Oct 14, 2011
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  2. xomniversex

    xomniversex MDL Member

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    #2422 xomniversex, Mar 9, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2015
    The things I hate about Metro and this flat minimalist skew lately is how there's so much whitespace on my 16:9 1920x1080 display in Metro apps; how everything looks so dull and lifeless compared to Aero Glass (hell, I can't even set the titlebar to black without making text invisible) and, last but not least, how Metro apps seem dumbed down and tailored for novices compared to Win32 predecessors. Microsoft deprecates features left and right and its all for the sake of the chosen ones: mobile users. Aero Glass deprecated because it consumes too much battery, panels and options used by power users are shrunk or deprecated altogether for the sake of a watered down facade of simplicity.

    Why should desktop users be forced to give up so much for the sake of mobile users? Why not give the CHOICE of enabling/disabling things instead of forcing a one-size-fits-all OS? Let the desktop users have Aero Glass if they so choose, let power users have their excessive context menus and radio buttons and drop down boxes, etc. Give the Metrofied flat minimalist dullness experience to the mobile users by default using the Continuum subsystem.. hell even do it by default for desktop users for all I care as long as there's the OPTION to re-enable a full featured beefy experience with a beautiful GUI.

    And some would suggest I return to Windows 7 if I care about all that. Well see I want the beauty of Windows 7 with the low level improvements in memory management, I/O handling, and other kernel related and core related improvements 8 and up brought to the table - without the ugly and minimalistic (minimal in all aspects) experience of the front-end.
     
  3. nosense

    nosense MDL Senior Member

    Sep 9, 2013
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    Title bar is getting fix when they finish up the light and dark theme.

    Metro app might not be comparable to the win32 version at this point because the app is fairly new. The win32 version have been updated and worked on for years. It's a work in progress when it comes to modern apps. It's not like windows 10 doesn't let you install the win32 version.

    What "power user" option is gone from windows 10?

    As for Aero, IMO it looks dated and gaudy.
     
  4. xomniversex

    xomniversex MDL Member

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  5. ZaForD

    ZaForD MDL Expert

    Jan 26, 2008
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    While I can't disagree with what you've said, theres also the point of where people have bought or are using the wrong equipment.
    I think we've all seen people trying to use laptops to do jobs that's are meant for desktops, or using desktops when a tablet would make things a lot easier.

    Same goes with Mice, Trackpads, Styluses and Digitisers. I've seen plenty of people trying to draw with trackpads and mice, but I can't say I've seen many gamers try to use a trackpad. :p
    These issues are then made worse when the user (and the ODM's) use the cheapest versions they can find, usually resulting in bad H/W as well as bad drivers. :(
     
  6. nosense

    nosense MDL Senior Member

    Sep 9, 2013
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    That's you assuming things, any source?
     
  7. burfadel

    burfadel MDL EXE>MSP/CAB

    Aug 19, 2009
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    So, Spartan may run as an app instead of a proper program? That would mean that I couldn't use it either!

    Apps are hardly efficient, just look inside the WindowsApps folder located under C:\Program Files. It's a hidden folder, I'm pretty sure you can at least view it without changing UAC or permissions. Anyways, look at the size of the apps in there, each has its own folder, and how many files they have. I'll use Windows Alarms as an example, only because it is such a simple app. It takes 5.82 MB, which doesn't sound like much, but think of what the app actually does. Now, look at how many files it has... 138? For something so simple, that is a lot. If you look at the whole folder as a whole, even out of the box it approaches 12,000 files, and that's without updates and only the standard apps. Maybe the individual app files should be contained in their own mini file system files, like the steam platform (for games) etc, it would make sense. Further to this, I don't see why the apps should be so big space wise anyway, considering they utilise standard controls .

    So, apps should be:
    • run in a mini-VM, as I mentioned earlier
    • by running in VM, meaning you can have UAC and LUA separate to the rest of the system
    • optimise applications to drastically reduce the space they occupy, as there is no reason why they should occupy so much space
    • have the individual files for an app contained within its own package, like the gaming steam platform and other various game file system layouts
    • optimise the file size and file system point for phones and tablets as well
    You can optimise the PC platform and phone platform differently for the universal apps once downloaded, since this is done anyway! The mini-file system for PC could be that each app is wholly contained within the app file system package, or there could be separate containers for different objects like graphics etc. Just so that instead of having a couple of hundred files, you may have just 5.

    Unfortunately the App package system is overlooked by most users, probably because it is hidden by default. Check it out, I think you'll find the layout, number of files, and space occupied by the simplest of apps to be a bit ridiculous seeing as they're claiming they are pushing for efficiency.
     
  8. Shenj

    Shenj MDL Expert

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    I see, i see you can't use Spartan because it's an App? You can't use Windows 10 then, because EVERYTHING is an App. Im not even sure what stops you from using it, inb4 disabled UAC.
     
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  9. burfadel

    burfadel MDL EXE>MSP/CAB

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    #2429 burfadel, Mar 10, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2015
    By 'app' I mean the Metro (Modern) type apps. The term 'app' is short for applet. You can run all the normal Windows programs just fine, it's just these applets that don't run. Applets are those downloaded from Windows Store, and with Windows 10 on desktop and Phones, the same app can be run on both systems. In other words, apps (including all those Bing apps like Finance, Travel etc), are pretty much just a variation of Java, where the same application can be run on vastly different platforms through the Java runtime.

    It would be interesting to know how many people actually use these apps for everyday use, as opposed to using proper (normal) programs. In any case, the app system is very inefficient and the changes I outlined shouldn't be overly difficult to implement.

    The app style Calculator is 60 files and 4.51 MB. It doesn't sound much, but it's a calculator! The Bing Weather main folder has 507 files. I use desktop Skype, and the whole folder is 11 files. The app style Skype is over 1700 files! The number of files can grow with updates etc.

    It just makes sense to have it in a virtualised file system like games do, and have them operate in a VM since they are 99 percent there anyway.
     
  10. frepsz

    frepsz MDL Junior Member

    Aug 26, 2014
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    What did you expect? Microsoft is still determined to get you to forget what a PC is. PCs don't bring money, phones do. The next thing will be SIM card support in w10.
     
  11. sevenacids

    sevenacids MDL Addicted

    Aug 17, 2012
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    Sorry, I don't get it. Why can't you run apps on Windows 10? They're an integral part of the system since Windows 8. And by the way, comparing Windows apps and Java is like comparing apples and oranges.
     
  12. Skaendo

    Skaendo MDL Addicted

    Sep 23, 2014
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    Just for comparison the Windows 7 calculator (calc.exe) is 897 KB. I don't know if there are dependencies for it though.
     
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  13. ZaForD

    ZaForD MDL Expert

    Jan 26, 2008
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    FYI, Windows has had SIM card support from at least XP SP2.
    All my old Thinkpad X21 needed was a registered SIM card ;)for the country I was in. ;)
     
  14. PaulDesmond

    PaulDesmond MDL Magnet

    Aug 6, 2009
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    this is really old news, thought @frepsz made a joke :D
     
  15. ZaForD

    ZaForD MDL Expert

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    I'm not a Metro app fan either, in fact I try my best to uninstall or ignore them.
    But isn't it the fact that there now 'Universal Apps' that's making them so bloated?
    The Dev has no idea which device it will be used on, so the App has to have every possible file and dependency it may need in order to run correctly. :confused:
     
  16. Skaendo

    Skaendo MDL Addicted

    Sep 23, 2014
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    Thought it was just me. My '08 Inspirons have sim card slots as well.
     
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  17. ZaForD

    ZaForD MDL Expert

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    Oh, Damn. Not again..... :eek:

    Bchat, is never gonna let me live these down. :weep:
     
  18. bchat

    bchat MDL Smart Azz

    Nov 7, 2008
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    This is part of my issue with Win 8 forward, trying to do much with one OS. Had they, if possible, developed 8 for the PC, then added/subtracted things so it would run on whatever else they wanted it to run on, I think all hardware types would have been better served. I'll be the first to admit my knowledge level is no where the needed level to make this statement, but hey...sometime ya' just go for it.
     
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  19. Skaendo

    Skaendo MDL Addicted

    Sep 23, 2014
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    That would make too much sense.
     
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  20. Terepin

    Terepin MDL Senior Member

    Sep 19, 2012
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    What are the chances of being this day THE day?
     
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