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Do you think a wall on the border with Mexico can stop the immigrants?

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by Katzenfreund, Jan 26, 2017.

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PointZero MDL Member

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#421 PointZero, Mar 10, 2017
Interesting article on border tunnels: http://www.abc15.com/news/national/border-patrol-tunnel-rats-plug-underground-passages
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#422 Tiger-1, Mar 10, 2017

@PointZero yep very good article, police on them!!
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#423 meomeo031, Mar 10, 2017

lol. shoddy workmanship . get a toyota.
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#424 Michaela Joy, Mar 10, 2017

Spam-Bot reported.

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#425 Katzenfreund, Mar 10, 2017 (OP)

I've just heard in the news a case of alleged discrimination against Trump. Apparently, Obama already in his 1st term in office tried to stop immigration from Mexico by increasing border policing, and the bill was quickly passed by congress, by both Democrats and Republicans.

So are we seeing double standards in action?

Obama Signs Bill to Increase Militarization of US-Mexico Border
https://www.democracynow.org/2010/8/19/obama_signs_600m_bill_to_increase
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#426 Michaela Joy, Mar 10, 2017

@Katzenfreund: What we're seeing is a deadly combination of hypocracy, stupidity, and selective Alzheimers.

"He who works with his hands is a laborer.
He who works with his hands and his mind is a craftsman.
He who works with his hands, his mind, and his heart is an artist."
― Saint Francis of Assisi

“The first gulp from the glass of natural sciences will turn you into an atheist, but at the bottom of the glass God is waiting for you.”
― Werner Heisenberg

I'd rather clean latrines in the armies of Heaven, than be a general in the armies of Hell.
― (Guess... )
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#427 Joe C, Mar 12, 2017

I do not doubt that there is a bias against Trump, From the first day when Trump snubbed the media by not letting them share the traditional election dinner with them, to accusing the media openly by being biased towards the liberal left. That gives feed for the media bias even more than before, and then we have an angry liberal left in general that can not accept the fact that Hillary is not the POTUS

Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
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#428 gorski, Mar 12, 2017

Trump started it way before any such instances, together with many a conservative...

Mind, the left (as well as perceived left) who got the same ride, used the same language...

In the second instance, esp. with Bernie, it was simply vile propaganda of the media owners.

In the first instance, before he showed his cards (seriously pro-corporations/capital) it was pretty justified.

Now, media "bias" towards Trump simply is not there - they have so much guano on him they do not need to do anything but report facts.

And if somebody doesn't see it - condolences...

"Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-incurred immaturity. Immaturity is the inability to use one's own understanding without the guidance of another. This immaturity is self-incurred if its cause is not lack of understanding, but lack of resolution and courage to use it without the guidance of another." I. Kant, "What is Enlightenment" in "Political writings" (1784) - the basis of Modernity...
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#429 Joe C, Mar 12, 2017

If Trump wipes his butt with his right hand instead of his left, you can bet the media will criticize him for it. Does Trump deserve the type of criticism from the media? Most likely so because he's done a lot to piss them off and they're going to make sure he knows it

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#430 Katzenfreund, Mar 12, 2017 (OP)

It seems Trump can hold his own against the press. He can selectively exclude from press conferences any media he doesn’t like, which damages their reporting abilityt and reduces public demand for them.

This may seem undemocratic discrimination, but I suppose he may be somehow justified in discriminating against those that discriminate against them.

Something similar happened where I live between the press and the police. The former were using every opportunity to defame the latter, so the police stopped feeding them with news stories. In the end they had to turn down their tone.
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#431 Joe C, Mar 12, 2017

It can be very dangerous for the govt to attempt media control, in the U.S. I feel that most citizens do value a free press very highly but at the same time, we also value an accuracy for reporting of the free press too

Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
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#432 gorski, Mar 12, 2017

Ermmm, how do you know which hand he uses for such intensely intimate affairs, Joe?

My point, seriously speaking, would be that the media is seriously screwed towards those who own them - and Trump is one of the corporate class, as we can see from the cabinet he established - worse still, from whom he wanted to appoint and couldn't because of screaming conflict of interest, lying, scheming etc. etc.!

This "show" is pretty ridiculous, all in all...

"Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-incurred immaturity. Immaturity is the inability to use one's own understanding without the guidance of another. This immaturity is self-incurred if its cause is not lack of understanding, but lack of resolution and courage to use it without the guidance of another." I. Kant, "What is Enlightenment" in "Political writings" (1784) - the basis of Modernity...
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#433 Joe C, Mar 12, 2017

gorski said: ↑

Ermmm, how do you know which hand he uses for such intensely intimate affairs, Joe?
Click to expand...

I heard it from the media!

Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
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#434 gorski, Mar 12, 2017
Last edited by a moderator: Apr 20, 2017

Heh, it sounds more like you're "hearing voices"...

Something delusional like this, maybe:

"Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-incurred immaturity. Immaturity is the inability to use one's own understanding without the guidance of another. This immaturity is self-incurred if its cause is not lack of understanding, but lack of resolution and courage to use it without the guidance of another." I. Kant, "What is Enlightenment" in "Political writings" (1784) - the basis of Modernity...
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#435 Joe C, Mar 12, 2017

gorski said: ↑

Heh, it sounds more like you're "hearing voices"...
Click to expand...

Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
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#436 gorski, Mar 12, 2017

One day you - guys defending Trump now - will all wake up with a huge headache and then...

Well, I bet everybody else will be to be blame...

"Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-incurred immaturity. Immaturity is the inability to use one's own understanding without the guidance of another. This immaturity is self-incurred if its cause is not lack of understanding, but lack of resolution and courage to use it without the guidance of another." I. Kant, "What is Enlightenment" in "Political writings" (1784) - the basis of Modernity...
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#437 Joe C, Mar 12, 2017

Well I do have to admit that blaming everybody else would be true to the Trump style

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#438 Katzenfreund, Mar 13, 2017 (OP)

Blaming others is neither new, nor uncommon, in fact that’s what others are there for in this world. After all, to err is human and to blame others even more so.

Continuing from my previous post on Trump vs The Press, freedom of the press is certainly essential part of democracy and keeps politicians on their toes. But too much power for the press is equally undesirable, as it can misinform, destroy people and try to dictate who will be elected.

So a balance of power is a kind of optimum situation, where the government also has weapons, and in the end the press are free to say what they like, but if they tell lies, they are accountable.
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#439 Michaela Joy, Mar 13, 2017

Katzenfreund said: ↑

Blaming others is neither new, nor uncommon, in fact that’s what others are there for in this world. After all, to err is human and to blame others even more so.

Continuing from my previous post on Trump vs The Press, freedom of the press is certainly essential part of democracy and keeps politicians on their toes. But too much power for the press is equally undesirable, as it can misinform, destroy people and try to dictate who will be elected.

So a balance of power is a kind of optimum situation, where the government also has weapons, and in the end the press are free to say what they like, but if they tell lies, they are accountable.
Click to expand...

There's not a single country in the world where the government doesn't have control over what the press can and can not say. Especially in times of war.

The USA is no different. Unfortunately, what's happened is an agenda has reared its' ugly head; and that is globalism.

We are not, nor will we allow ourselves to become a borderless country.

And that's why Trump won. Because He did not advocate Globalism. Plain and simple. The people do not want open borders. Especially if it means loss of jobs. They'd rather pay more for exports and allow the Capitalists do what they do best. Regardless of the outcome.

So, for those who envision socialism and globalism taking hold in America, forget it. The people have spoken.
The ones who are squealing the loudest are the ones whose agenda has been thwarted.

That's always been a given. The loser complains the most.

From my standpoint, it is what it is. I'll survive.
It's what I do. It's what we all do. We manage to make it and survive.

Time for popcorn, as I sit back and watch the show.

"He who works with his hands is a laborer.
He who works with his hands and his mind is a craftsman.
He who works with his hands, his mind, and his heart is an artist."
― Saint Francis of Assisi

“The first gulp from the glass of natural sciences will turn you into an atheist, but at the bottom of the glass God is waiting for you.”
― Werner Heisenberg

I'd rather clean latrines in the armies of Heaven, than be a general in the armies of Hell.
― (Guess... )
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#440 gorski, Mar 14, 2017
https://www.washingtonpost.com/grap...more-top-stories_tugriver826pm:homepage/story

[h=1]In a place of need, an unhealthy contradiction[/h]
They are poor, sick and voted for Trump. What will happen to them without Obamacare?
Says Bernie:

Yesterday I was in West Virginia for a town hall meeting in McDowell County. At a time of massive income and wealth inequality, McDowell County is one of the poorest counties in the nation with more than a third of its residents living in in poverty. The life expectancy is the lowest in the country and unemployment is twice the national level. What is happening in McDowell County, however, is not unique. Large swaths of rural America, in every part of the country, have been left behind economically. Jobs have left rural communities in large numbers, the infrastructure (including access to affordable broadband) is often inadequate, decent health care and educational opportunity are lacking and family owned farms are in decline.

America is not just our great cities. It is also our small towns. Congress must focus attention on how we create a strong economy and good quality of life in rural America so that young people, if they choose, have the opportunity to stay in the communities they were raised.
Click to expand...
"Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-incurred immaturity. Immaturity is the inability to use one's own understanding without the guidance of another. This immaturity is self-incurred if its cause is not lack of understanding, but lack of resolution and courage to use it without the guidance of another." I. Kant, "What is Enlightenment" in "Political writings" (1784) - the basis of Modernity...

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