Discussion in 'Windows 8' started by Thvle, Feb 7, 2014.
For that, is there any permanent fix? Thank you.
If the mouse works fine in previous Windows versions, you may want to check the vendor's site for a 8.1 driver. Could you provide a little more detail on the issues? Any possibility there is a setting in the Control Panel that needs fine tuning?
MS fixed the mouse issues in Win 8.1 months ago so not sure what you are asking.
or just run this .bat as adm > hxxp://mediafire.com/download/617rgerl1c3dqj7/System-Wide+Fix+%5BWin8.1%5D.bat
Comments for scientific explanations why 1000Hz is better for window-dragging/scrolling, even on a 60Hz or 120Hz monitor:
Earlier this week, I upgraded from Windows 8 to Windows 8.1.I immediately noticed fluidity problems, even when dragging windows or dragging scrollbars.
Even with the Microsoft’s gaming mouse fix (KB 2908279 and KB 2908279), dragging windows and dragging scroll bars is NOT as smooth as before. Just doing these fixes alone, DID NOT solve the problem alone. Something more had to be done. Knowledgeable in math, also a hobbyist vision researcher, and as a display tester — Microsoft made a miscalculation here thinking 1000Hz mice was useless at the desktop.
With a 1000Hz mouse, everything ran very smoothly and window movements was really smooth. Now the report rate seems to be limited to 100Hz or 200Hz, and that creates some nasty framerate-aliasing effects with 120hz and 144Hz. Microsoft should have kept Window dragging at full mouse report rate (500Hz or 1000Hz), because of less framerate-aliasing (stutter) with the monitor’s refresh rate.
One could easily keep the mouse report rate at 1000Hz and take:
- At 120Hz, every 8 or 9 out of the 1000Hz mouse (1/120sec= 8.3ms)
- At 144Hz, every 7 or so out of 1000Hz mouse (1/144sec = 6.9ms)
- At 60Hz, every 16 or 17 out of 1000Hz mouse (1/60sec = 16.7ms)
In these situations, the mathematic error is only 1 millisecond worth of mouse movement. e.g. At a mouse movement of 2000 pixels/second, 1000Hz means about 2 pixels per mouse movement. So the mouse mis-positioning error (if a mouse position “rounds-off” to the wrong refresh) is as little as only 2 pixels.
However, I feel that Microsoft messed up and chose a report rate of 100Hz or 200Hz during Windows manipulation (dragging windows, dragging scroll bar, etc) which is noticeably less clear than before. At 200Hz, you’ve a math error of 5 millisecond worth of mouse movement. e.g. At a mouse movement of 2000 pixels/second, 200Hz means about 10 pixels per mouse movement. So the mouse mis-positioning error (if a mouse position “rounds-off” to the wrong refresh) is as huge as 10 pixels (relative to where the human eye is tracking, when smoothly dragging a window, while tracking your eyes on it). Mis-positioning errors show up as continuous stutters.
There appears to be dozens of stutters occuring per second, as it looks “jittery” (or “blurrier” — because the jitteriness is at a high frequency). When dragging at 1200 pixels/second at 120Hz, if you had a good mouse on a good surface, it should drag the window in fairly even 10 pixel increments (1200 / 120 = 10). Smooth would be 10 pixel, 10 pixel, 10 pixel, 10 pixel, in each subsequent monitor refresh (maybe with +/- 1 or 2 pixels, due to hand movement erraticness, mouse sensor limitations, and mouse pad issues). However, the way Microsoft has done it, it drags forward 15 pixels, then 5 pixels, then 10 pixels, then 12 pixels, then 6 pixels, and so on. That’s what is happening in Windows 8.1.
Big stutter (error of +/- 10 pixels) is much worse than small stutter (error of +/- 2 pixels). The use of 1000Hz reduces stutters caused by aliasing between the mouse-rate and the refresh-rate. That’s why a 1000Hz mouse is much smoother than 200Hz mouse, even at Windows desktop. I don’t think the Windows programmers were smart enough to realize this before motion-fluidity-sensitive users like us.
Especially as us 120Hz users and gaming mouse users, are sensitive to stutters and are complaining about this — even at the Windows desktop!
This stutter problem is especially apparent when using monitors with ultra-clear CRT-like motion — such as gaming monitors with strobe backlight LCD’s. (e.g.LightBoost blur reduction, EIZO Turbo240 strobing in FG2421, or BENQ XL2720Z Blur Reduction strobing), gaming monitors that eliminate motion blur.
I still detect these Windows 8.1 mouse stutters even at 60Hz. It’s just that mouse fluidity is far more massively degraded for 120Hz and 144Hz users (on a relative basis), since there’s some nasty aliasing between the refresh rate and mouse rate (which create microstutters when dragging windows or dragging scrollbars)
Often on many of these ultraclear-motion computer monitors, text remain readable while scrolling (e.g. Internet Explorer up/down arrow key smooth scrolling). Just like on a CRT in the old CRT days. Dragging windows, text stayed this clear too (text remained readable while dragging window, with a 1000Hz mouse on a strobe-backlight gaming LCD)
Note: The microstutters occur so rapidly at 120Hz and 144Hz, they kind of blend into a motion blur. Which is enough to make text unreadable when dragging window. The 200Hz mouse is 5x more stuttery than the 1000Hz mouse. So because of this, someone at Microsoft may say “it looks fine”. So here’s a more specific scenario that shows a startling dramatic difference:
Extreme reproduction Scenario, Two separate computers, Test side by side:
1. Obtain two 120Hz or 144Hz monitor, such as one from hxxp://blurbusters.com/faq/120hz-monitors/
2. Obtain two good 1000Hz mouse, configure them to run 1000Hz
3. Enable the clearest motion mode on that monitor (e.g. LightBoost, Turbo240, etc)
4. On computer #1 in Windows 8, drag browser window around briskly, while trying to read web page text in window. Text remains fully readable (just like when dragging window on a CRT).
5. On computer #2, in Windows 8.1, drag browser window around briskly, while trying to read web page text in window. Text is no longer readable because it looks so stuttery. Microstutter (mouse positioning error) in window movement is about 5x worse (e.g. window position inconsistency caused by aliasing effect between mouserate and refreshrate)
6. The difference is startlingly dramatic when tested this way, especially with two people dragging a window at the same time on these two separate systems.
Yes, the above is just an extreme scenario, designed to show dramatic differences in a simulataneous side-by-side test that makes it dramatically easy to see the difference. Others can still see the problem even at just 60Hz, and in less demanding use cases. One ought to realize that different people are more sensitive, so even in less dramatic use cases than the above, are still greatly bothered by the degradation of Windows 8.1 mouse fluidity.
It’s possible Microsoft may think this is unimportant, but I would hope they realize gamers a valuable target audience for Microsoft, and they also speak pretty loudly, as well. Especially when computers get higher end equipment (better monitors, better mice, etc).
Just in case someone at Microsoft think 200Hz is enough — There are vision researchers that have found that humans can also tell imperfections that gradually disappear when going higher frame rates 250fps vs 500fps vs 1000fps indirectly via motion blur effects and stroboscopic effects. Vendors such as vpixx.com sells scientific displays with a 500Hz refresh rate. Even when one thinks that humans can’t tell apart high frame rates, side effects are constantly discovered. A good educational site is hxxp://testufo.com and the 15+ selectable motion tests at the upper-right corner.
Without the fix I described, window dragging and scrollbar dragging, the moving text is never as clear as TestUFO text scrolling animation. With a gaming mouse AND the fix, the text now becomes as clear as the left half of the text scrolling animation, since the high report rate ensures fewest harmonics (worst-case stutter amplitude) between mouse rate and refresh rate.
and for eliminate aceleration use this > hxxp://donewmouseaccel.blogspot.com.br/2010/03/markc-windows-7-mouse-acceleration-fix.html
I read that before and TBH its more of a placebo.
I have a Sony FW900 so no need as it fluid anyway and battery life on the G700S is poor as it is outside of gaming so I will stick to 120HZ with power saving modes and 1000HZ with performance modes in game.
The 2 MS KB's fixed my weird mouse movements in Win 8.1.
this monitor is incredible, i love CRTs
just for curiosity, what resolution and refresh-rate are you using? through what connection?
You need to login to view this posts content.
You have to feed the mouse now with Win 8.1. Leave a little piece of cheese on your desktop before bed and the little bugger will see to himself.
I give him some Helmutcheese.
A good permanent fix is installing a different operating system, that wasn't designed for tablets.