Global Warming: Your opinion ....

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by R29k, Jun 14, 2011.

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Is Global Warming man made or a natural cycle ?

  1. Yes, it is man made

  2. Undecided

  3. No, I think there is another reason for it

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. R29k

    R29k MDL GLaDOS

    Feb 13, 2011
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    #1 R29k, Jun 14, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
    [​IMG]
    Do you believe that Global Warming is man made or not, would be interested in seeing what people think?

    Why I don't believe that Global Warming is Man Made:

    Since Al Gore's Inconvenient Truth I became fascinated by one statement he made, "tipping point of global warming". I always wondered how it were possible for man to use resources on the Earth to put the Earth in an irreparable state. From inception it seemed like nonsense to me, but since I wasn't a geologist or climatologist I decided to dig up all the info I could on Earth's climate through the various eras.
    Now the Earth is 4.5 billion years old and man has only been around about 200 000 years or so if you look at existing fossil records. Of those 200 000 years the only period that man could impact the CO2 output significantly would be during the last 200 years or so due to industrialization. Looking at that alone you can see that man's existence has been insignificant on the time scale of the Earth.
    So how could man bring the Earth to a "tipping point" in 200 years ?

    [​IMG]

    The first thing that gets pushed by Gore is this carbon graph that I got off the
    NASA Global Warming site
    Notice the high rise at the end of the graph, that's supposed to be your factories, SUVs and ACs etc. doing that. Scary isn't it! But there is one problem, 650 000 years is not 4.5 Billion, I want the bigger picture.
    As it turns out you can get the bigger picture here. And also a very interesting conclusion.

    [​IMG]

    The most interesting thing is the full scale graph of carbon concentration in the atmosphere over the Earth's lifetime.
    From this graph you can see that the Earth is now coming out of the lowest period of carbon concentration in the atmosphere ever. The only place that carbon could go was up ! Now is this the "tipping point" to end the World, No !!! This, for me, takes away all of Al Gore's credibility. If he were a misinformed person with the Earth's best interests at hand I would excuse him. However when you set up yourself to benefit financially from scaring people with misinformation then you become a parasite !
    What exactly is causing Global Warming then ? From all indications it is a very complex question that humans have yet to figure out. There are simply too many unknown variables to be certain.
    What is being conveniently ignored by man made warming proponents, is that the warming is not limited to just the Earth! The whole Solar System is being affected.
    I think we will have a better understanding of the climate in the coming decade during the Maunders Minimum.

    Interesting videos





     
  2. UVAIS

    UVAIS MDL Expert

    Mar 17, 2011
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    Yes, it is man made :eek:
     
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  3. half Man Half Biscuit

    half Man Half Biscuit MDL Addicted

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    Thanks R29k for starting this thread.
    I believe that Global warming is only man made.
    I think that people are the biggest animals on earth,in every therm.
    I´m not only talking about (GLOBAL WARMING),when you see how people throw there garbage beside the garbage can when she stands in front of there face.
    When you think about something,why do you need to drive a car with 5-6 hundred HP, that lets so much gasses out like maybe 4 normal cars make?
    We don´t need, but that´s the peoples nature only show how much money you got and who gives a s**t about the earth.
    There are many more things that i could post but that would take many hours to write,so my answer is that everything comes from us humans.
    If we don´t stop,in maybe a few hundred years or sooner people won´t be able to live on earth.
    Nobody is responsible for that then we humans,that´s my opinion.:eek:
     
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  4. Yes, human-made
    by the industry
    and private waste gases
    the last 250 years.

    it's to late to return...
    and China/Asia
    gives the world
    now the rest ;)

    R29k, you can share the address of earth II ? ;)
     
  5. 60cent

    60cent MDL Senior Member

    May 31, 2011
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    Definetly man made

    These days people dont even walk to the store thats 2 minutes away,they use there cars that produce alot of bad gasses.
    And i also think like Song Jiang that its to late
     
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  6. paul3200

    paul3200 MDL Member

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    i think that it is going to happen no matter what and we may have sped it up but eventually it was going to happen
     
  7. jumprosel

    jumprosel MDL Novice

    Apr 8, 2011
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    For me it's definitely man made, air pollution makes global warming worst.
     
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  8. R29k

    R29k MDL GLaDOS

    Feb 13, 2011
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    I posted my opinion here, I didn't want to earlier because people tend to harp on what was said before and ignore what they think personally.
     
  9. Stannieman

    Stannieman MDL Guru

    Sep 4, 2009
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    Probably man made.
    Cars and co2 are 1 part, but don't forget cows. The produce a lot of methane, eating less meat meens less cows means less methane means less global warming.
    Als take in account that the biggest GHG is water vapor.

    But I remember that Bil Gates had a weird plan a while ago. Dark colors absorb heat, and oceans are dark. His plan was to build ships with uge pumps that blows water in the air to create a kind of fog. Fog is white, so less heat absorbtion by oceans.
    It's a weird idea though.

    But the fact is that we MUST do something about it.
     
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  10. pierrejaquet

    pierrejaquet MDL Member

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    It will be so cool when I can swim above skyscrapers.
     
  11. kpo6969

    kpo6969 MDL Member

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    #11 kpo6969, Jun 15, 2011
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2011
    [video=youtube_share;jdVgnpcVGWM]http://youtu.be/jdVgnpcVGWM[/video]
     
  12. BobSheep

    BobSheep MDL Guru

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    #12 BobSheep, Jun 15, 2011
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2011
    Here's my view on this. First some facts.

    1. Norsemen (Denmark) colonised Greenland around 980 AD. It was much warmer then and much of southern Greenland was ice free. This was due to the Medieval Warm Period between AD 950–1250.
    2. Then came the Little Ice Age between 1550 AD and 1850 AD. This caused the river Thames in London to freeze over. This happened at the same time as the Maunder Minimum which was when the sun was virtually free of sunspots.
    3. Ever since the end of the Little Ice Age the world has become warmer but not warm enough to make Greenland like it once was.
    4. A news conference was given yesterday by the American Astronomical Society that said there was possibility of the sun going into a quiet mode without any sunspots again.

    I do not believe in Manmade (Anthropological) Global Warming, the Global Warming is due the the world going back to how it was in the Medieval Warm Period after the Little Ice Age ended.

    There is good reason to think another Little Ice Age is imminent also which could last up to 70 years or more.
     
  13. Niekess

    Niekess MDL Addicted

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    I don't think its man made. It's a common cycle in nature as my teacher told years ago that there are times of hot time and colder times each 2000 year or something. We are just nearing the peak of that time according to him that it is hot.
     
  14. c-dan

    c-dan MDL Member

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    "Man-made" constitutes majorly to the "Natural cycle". If man was the not the cause, something else would be... Everything goes full-circle. (maybe decelerating at a lower level, accelerating at a higher level or vice-versa, but always in its absolute entirety staying constant)
     
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  15. burfadel

    burfadel MDL EXE>MSP/CAB

    Aug 19, 2009
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    Climate change is a natural cycle caused by ocean current changes, the Earth's orbital parameters, and the subsequent biological response.

    Many people are not aware that the Earth is not always a constant distance from the sun and that the wobble (which gives you the seasons) is not static. Over thens of thousands of years, the Earth's orbit cycles between an oval like shape like it is now, to a more circular shape. The wobble of the earth also varies by a few degrees, meaning the tropic of Capricorn and Cancer expand and contract. The last ice age (glacial period) was triggered by this cycle likewise the end of the last ice age (heading towards the current interglacial period) was also triggered by this change.

    That aside, you come to the current situation where the terms 'climate change' and 'greenhouse effect' etc are thrown around and not used correctly. The fact is, climate change is a natural process, the greenhouse effect is something which we didn't have Earth would be a freezing iceball, and global warming is something which occurs naturally. Its warmer now than the last ice age isn't it? Instead of trying to change the definition of these terms, people should be using a more correct definition of what is actually occurring. 'Human influenced global climate change', 'human accelerated global warming', and 'human modified greenhouse effect' are all means of correctly describing the situation, the incorrect use of the terms just increases the probability of doubt.

    Carbon dioxide does influence the amount of heat that is trapped in the atmosphere. The argument that we're at the lowest CO2 levels in the atmosphere isn't quite accurate, the lowest levels occur during the last glacial period. The orbit changes of the earth is the greater influence on the climate in many ways than CO2 itself, a result of the cooling is a change in biological activity, much of this in the ocean. Cold ocean water can hold much more CO2 than warm water, and it can also hold much more nutrients. This takes CO2 out of the atmosphere and the resulting increased biological activity (plankton etc) in the ocean helps further reduce the CO2 levels resulting in a feedback loop.

    For an interglacial period the sea level is actually quite low now compared to the past. As people are probably aware the sea level is greately influenced by the glacial and interglacial periods, the height can differ by over 100 metres. The worry about human influenced climate change is that we are altering the otherwise natural balance that has been going on. Currently the atmospheric CO2 is around 390ppm (it does vary by around 8ppm due to the seasons), before the industrial revolution in the late 1800's it was around 280ppm. In the 1970's it was around 330ppm. This figure is important to consider, as atmospheric CO2 does have a lag-time in climatological influences. The heat trapped by the extra CO2 is absorbed by the ocean, and much of this heat is transferred down through the ocean column (the bottom of the ocean is 4 degrees celsius, as this is the temperature at which water is the densest). The affect on temperature etc that we are currently experiencing is caused by what would be the case if the CO2 was like it was around 40 years ago, at 330ppm. This is less than half of the CO2 that we have put into the atmosphere!

    The other issue is once ocean water warms, it is able to hold less CO2. Not only that, the ice which is melthing which reflects most of the infra-red radiation back into space (being white!) now absorbs the infrared radiation becuase it is the darker ocean colour. This results in a warming feedback. So is what we are looking at for alternatives correct? simple answer is actually no! Electric and hybrid cars may be great but the materials used in them, such as lithium for the batteries, produce their own problems. Introducing carbon taxes and other such things are just plain and stupid as well, as it really only ends up beng a tax grab. Such a thing could mean some manufacturing moving to a place thats much cheaper, has lower environmental standards, and as a result actually increase emissions! plus less money in the pockets of people means less ability for them to purchase environmentally friendly products in the future.

    A balanced approach is needed, one which isn't a short term political one but a long term environmental one. Wind and solar are the usual things people look at for alternatives as they have been conditioned to do so. Although wind and solar are great, in most cases they cannot replace the baseload power requirements (if its cloudy and no wind)! Solar and wind are great politically because its a very visible technology. Instead of looking at these, things such as geothermal and wave energy should be more invested in. In addition to this, real fuel alternatives should be looked at and not just ethanol which is actually quite ineffective. You need to burn roughly 30 percent more ethanol than petrol for the same power, meaning with E10 you burn roughly 3 percent more. Also in a normal car you are limited to around 10 percent, and it absorbs water which isn't the best thing for your engine!

    Butanol is another alcohol that can be biologically produced and is much better than ethanol. It can be mixed at a much higher rate in a normal engine, doesn't mix with water so well, is practically on par with petrol when it comes to the amount needed to be burned, and can be made from the same base products as ethanol. One thing we shouldn't be doing is drawing food production to make ethanol which is currently the case in some places of the world. Diesel engines can run on organic oil, and in fact the first diesel engine was actually designed to run on peanut oil! not distillate (diesel fuel) like current engines. Current engines run just fine on processed oil and in fact some people do run their cars on old fish and chip oil and you can buy biodiesel in some locations. To source the oil for biodiesel, you can grow plans such as mustard seed which can grow in areas which are marginal farmland now, and even in more arid areas. This is just an example of what should be done instead of bickering about what should be done and if there's a need for it or not.

    The funny thing about the suggestions with geothermal, wave energy, butanol production, and oil for biodiesel is that regardless of which side you are on in terms of human modified global warming (or whatever correct term you would like to use!), these things are essential as the world oil and coal reserves aren't infinite. We shouldn't wait for 40 years to find out, oops, should have done this back then! as it will take a couple of decades to fine tune the technologies (and potential new tecnologies) and make it workable on a global scale.
     
  16. It has been noted by all the world's top scientists of U.S.A/Europe/ASIA in the current phase of the sun, it should now be colder, but it is demonstrably warmer each year and that is totally abnormal, but it's all too late anyway.

    Bob, the world is not flat and the man-made global warming is not to hide for long.

    A scientific controversy does not help people if you can not now make the train left and you all know, is it just the cost is not more.

    And the other lobby money always takes place for a scientist in the world of a different opinion.

    This is my opinion! ;)
     
  17. BobSheep

    BobSheep MDL Guru

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    #17 BobSheep, Jun 15, 2011
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2011
    Any facts to back that up?

    Here's mine.

    http://discover.itsc.uah.edu/amsutemps/

    click on global atmospheric temperature trend and select all years, you find 3 years colder and 5 years warmer than 2011.

    Also see http://www.drroyspencer.com/latest-global-temperatures/
     
  18. Yes, Bob the Report: Al Gore's Climate Project and many many many other of this world.
     
  19. R29k

    R29k MDL GLaDOS

    Feb 13, 2011
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    That's because Gore isn't a scientist he is just pushing around what people tell him. Or what he makes up along the way.
    However Bob, I think the general trend is that temperatures have been increasing year upon year. If you look at the 2nd pic in the first post in this thread you will see a graph for Earths temperature during its lifetime. The issue is not whether Global Warming is real, it is real, the issue is what causes it. Just my 2 cents :)