Global Warming: Your opinion ....

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by R29k, Jun 14, 2011.

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Is Global Warming man made or a natural cycle ?

  1. Yes, it is man made

  2. Undecided

  3. No, I think there is another reason for it

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. case-sensitive

    case-sensitive MDL Expert

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    #1761 case-sensitive, Aug 5, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2022
    >"Experts"

    Yes . We should be / try to be adult . That means trust nothing , believe nothing , have faith in nothing , question everything . Cross check things .

    i posted that article to give a contrast / comparison to the things that are going around . Government / press / interest groups ' facts ' / facts / proofs and evidence .

    At the moment the main emphasis is on extreme opinions like there is no climate cackestrophy ........... to government and their press truthes ........ and that report helps to put the corner post / goal posts back where they should be and level the playing field .

    It should be obvious that even if we introduce a state of emrgency now and actualy do something to stop / make the climate cackstophy less it will take at least twenty years before the things we're doing now have any effect . ..... = For the next 20 years things can only get worse . The damage that we see now has its roots decades ago .

    Even brain dead people should be able to understand that the air we breath is made largely by trees ........... and it takes a few minutes / hours to burn a tree down .......... and 20 - 30 years to grow a replacement tree .
     
  2. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    Said right-wing "non-experts"... Laughable!!!

    For instance: https://www.theguardian.com/busines...res-rise?CMP=twt_b-gdnnews#Echobox=1659528161

    Cimate change will raise the sea levels... Any idea how dangerous that is when it floods the current and planned nuclear plants?!?

    To this day we have no idea how to store the spent nuclear rods - or how much it will cost - the taxpayer! Not businesses!

    One serious incident might be enough: tectonic activity, climate weather patterns, war - you name it!

    It is TOO dangerous and too expensive!!! Decommissioning lasts forever and cost untold sums!

    So, all in all - this is for morons!

    Human Beings would have thought through the potential consequences of what they are about to do! We have not! Period! Morons!

    When are *we* gonna grow up?!?
     
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  3. PointZero

    PointZero MDL Member

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    The largest nuclear plant in the US is in the middle of the Arizona desert. It's uneventfully been making power for 36 years now: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palo_Verde_Nuclear_Generating_Station

    https://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/fact-sheets/storage-spent-fuel.html
     
  4. murphy78

    murphy78 MDL DISM Enthusiast

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    Correct. That's why using credentials in an argument is an argument from authority logical fallacy. Sadly too many people think that getting some cushy government job means that you know "Truth" whatever that is. When I was young and foolish I would believe people who were in positions of authority because I couldn't fathom people leading us wrong. Then I witnessed them lead us into many pointless wars and recessions. The same experts are wrong constantly. The ones that people trot out on a daily basis are often wrong about huge things like the internet being non-important for daily life in the future, or why this huge government spending package is going to be nothing but good for the economy forever.

    I have a healthy mistrust for everybody. I always have. I can form positive opinions of things, but even when I do I'm always skeptical. Some people are blindly tribal and think that anyone who argues against their tribe must be for the "Other tribe" and everything that goes always with that. Anyone to the right of stalin is a nazi or vise versa. I've noticed quite a lot of this behavior when it comes to all political topics. Climate change is no different. People don't think very deeply on issues. They don't analyze or think logically.
     
  5. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    #1765 gorski, Aug 9, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2022
    Let's say that this one was "fine" (a miracle!) - what with tens of those which did NOT?!? How STUPID is it to just "gloss over it"?!? All it takes in one major meltdown for a Swiss cheese Earth...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_and_radiation_accidents_and_incidents

    https://www.atomicheritage.org/history/nuclear-reactor-accidents-history-and-legacies

    https://environmentalprogress.org/nuclear-deaths

    Temporary storage! TEMPORARY!!! And not even that!!!

    We need to last 50.000 - 100.000 years!!!

    It's MORONIC to get into such a terribly potentially dangerous mess without a clue as to what to do with enormous radioactive junk for who knows how many generations to come!!!!!!!
     
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  6. case-sensitive

    case-sensitive MDL Expert

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    @ ' Experts '

    Its not only biased experts that are causing trouble and makeing the water murky ............ its also to a very large part trolls , backward attention seekers like pinky .
     
  7. PointZero

    PointZero MDL Member

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    @gorski:

    from https://environmentalprogress.org/nuclear-deaths :

    "On April 19, 1985, an employee fell to his death at River Bend Nuclear Plant in Louisiana."

    "On July 16, 1971, at Quad Cities nuclear plant in Illinois, a worker was electrocuted by a live cable -- he later died from his injuries."

    "On March 31, 2013, a generator in the non-nuclear area of Arkansas Nuclear One fell and killed one worker."

    and others..

    Really? They are considering those deaths to be caused by nuclear power? Industrial accidents and work-related fatalities unfortunately happen all the time in many fields. I'd bet that more people have died in the mining industry overall than have died directly as a result of radiation exposure from nuclear power accidents. Should mining be banned?

    Workers have died as a result of wind turbines. One example: https://www.windpowermonthly.com/article/1695522/worker-dies-fall-us-wind-farm

    Wind turbines kill an estimated million birds annually: https://www.sierraclub.org/michigan/wind-turbines-and-birds-and-bats

    There have been fatalities from workers falling when installing solar panels.

    How about this article: https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2008/03/deaths-per-twh-for-all-energy-sources.html

    No source of energy is perfect or without risk.

    The US has miles and miles of desolate desert owned by the government that could be used for long-term storage of nuclear waste. Elon Musk's Starship is designed to carry 100 metric tons into space. Eventually could use it to just shoot the nuclear waste off earth, if people are bothered by it sitting in bunkers out in the desert. Shoot it directly into the Sun, lol.

    Nuclear power technology has advanced quite a bit and will continue advancing. Pebble-bed reactors were talked about as being the future of nuclear years ago and there's probably more advanced technology than that now.
     
  8. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    WTF are you on about?!? All that is PR of the nuke industry, FFS!!! Have you no brains of your own?!?

    Chernobyl alone had over 6000 cases confirmed - many "successfully" treated (thyroid, so how "successful" would you like to be - to be in their skin?!?) - but I bet you do not want to be in that "little" group... And they don't even know of other countries, where the radioactive fallout occurred, like in my neck of the wood!!! None of that is ever quantified!!!

    So, no: you can't see the wood for the trees!!!

    There are radioactive isotopes on various islands in Arctic circle, the huge mess around Sellafield alone should make anyone think thrice - but oh no... Fukushima doesn't exist, eh?!?

    The Irish Sea alone should put anyone off nuclear energy for ever!!! Wanna eat the yummy radioactive crustaceans from the English/Irish Channel?!? I mean, honestly?!?

    Climate change is raising the sea levels, many such plants would be flooded and - not a peep, eh? Tectonic movement can really f**k it up for us - but not a word, eh?!?

    What storage?!? RESEARCH A BIT!!! Only the Finnish have so far attempted something long term and brought it to a relatively decent level but even that is no guarantee!!! And not lasting enough!

    And the nuclear garbage is pilling up, in ever bigger tonnage!!! And no one has a clue what to do with it - but we are continuing to use it and pollute everything we touch!

    In fact, *we* are planning to make many more nuke plants, precisely in such areas which would be flooded?!? FCOL, how many more "close shaves" do we need?!?

    Seriously?!? Have you gone completely doo-lally?!? HUMANS ARE FLAWED and NUCLEAR POWER IS TOO DANGEROUS!!! Period!

    Not just nuclear - all powerful technologies MUST be carefully scrutinised and managed - or else!!!

    Musk's and other people's rockets still explode, FFS! Are you nuts?!? That idea is really indicative of our own stupidity! We pollute as much as we possibly can, with no idea of the exit strategy, of the consequences of what we are doing - but we're gonna do it anyway?!? Jesus Marx wept!!! Now we're gonna pollute ever more of our solar system - and that's a "solution" for who we are and what we keep doing?!? NUTS!!!

    So, nope, I really don't like the "else" bit, thanx a bunch!
     
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  9. PointZero

    PointZero MDL Member

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    #1769 PointZero, Aug 10, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2022
    .
     
  10. acer-5100

    acer-5100 MDL Guru

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    That's the HUGE problem of any serious debate in the FB era.

    Being a fan? o_O

    What the heck you think, that nuclear fission is an hard rock band or a football team?

    Being a fan is matter of personal taste. Everyone is right "by design"

    Trashing the planet where you live, and where your sons and grandsons will live, is not matter of taste. Is either right or wrong.

    And I can't think of something more wrong than *current* nuclear power.

    First by principle, second but not less important, it's economically idiotic.
     
  11. R29k

    R29k MDL GLaDOS

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    [/QUOTE]

    You really like making yourself look silly don't you?!
    I posted multiple videos where they are making reactors that can use the spent material again. https://www.neimagazine.com/features/featureusing-waste-to-fuel-future-reactors-8786936/

    You really are getting disgraceful now the way you are clutching at straws to try to prove your nonexistent point! Why don't you explain to us how your are going to deal with solar panel waste? Or do you like cadmium in your ground water?
    https://www.americanexperiment.org/the-environmental-disaster-of-solar-energy/
     
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  12. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    #1772 gorski, Aug 10, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2022
    Indeed, anyone who just glosses over the immense dangers of nuclear power has a 10000% couch potato brain, aye...

    Mining for anything is polluting and fraught with danger and ought to be regulated much better, needless to say...

    Mercifully, I am not advocating coal sh&te, so your "scare tactics" are just a completely sh&te "argument"...

    Besides, anyone being just a "fan" of anything should really grow up and face the... N. Tesla music:

    We have to evolve means of obtaining energy from stores which are forever inexhaustible, to perfect methods which do not imply consumption and waste of any material whatever... If we use fuel to get our power, we are living on our capital and exhausting it rapidly. This method is barbarous and wasteful and will have to be stopped in the interest of coming generations.– Nikola Tesla 1897 and 1915
     
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  13. R29k

    R29k MDL GLaDOS

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    You haven't put forward one valid point. All you do is pad up posts with loads of bs that have nothing to do with the question asked.
     
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  14. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    Damn, they invented the perpetuum mobile and didn't tell us? Man, what a mistakeh to makeh... :rolleyes:

    Yes, the French, for instance, are doing it for a while - so...?!? Eventually they will be spent and they will still be radioactive and dangerous and they will have to be stored - something we currently haven't a clue as to how to do, where to do it and so on... And the costs are astronomical!!!!

    Must I teach you the ABC every few posts?!? Are you really this lazy or this biased?!? Search a bit and ye shall find!!!
     
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  15. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    The opposite is the truth of the matter! You are biased and ignore what doesn't fit!

    That is offensive!!! And the offended person is primarily you - not to mention your progeny!!!
     
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  16. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    I suggest you start with this: https://www.gcsp.ch/global-insights/75-years-later-nuclear-weapons-still-kill - if we can't even deal with minimal safety and accuracy with these, then we're doomed...

    https://www.scientistswarning.org/2020/06/04/nuclear-power-a-risk-analysis/ -

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nuclear_power_accidents_by_country - many, many more victims unaccounted given death was not instantaneous and absolutely directly attributable - but don't let that stop you, you're on a roll...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deaths_due_to_the_Chernobyl_disaster - and never ever even think about people whose crops were irradiated in other countries (like my own family), who later developed cancers etc. - NEVER think of anyone like that, why should you, given your family was not affected... mmmmyeeesss...

    This one mentions a bit of that: https://ratical.org/radiation/NAvictims.html

    One more for good measure, just to see how sorely inadequate and biased, shallow and hollow are "counts" like yours: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nuclear_and_radiation_accidents_by_death_toll

    But I really despair when people think they are better than Tesla on this subject... Really...
     
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  17. PointZero

    PointZero MDL Member

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    #1777 PointZero, Aug 10, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2022
    .
     
  18. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    No, you don't "think"! If you did you'd have at least some doubts but oh no...
     
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  19. acer-5100

    acer-5100 MDL Guru

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    I think that after 89 pages of debate would be pointless for me to state the obvious. But...

    Ocean or not, subjected to quakes or not, the power plant itself is just the tip of the iceberg.

    Ask to Germany and their "indestructible and eternal" salt mine, that went partially submerged by a unpredictable water leak, after few decades.

    They have no idea about what to do, and about the astronomical cost to cleanup the mess.

    That said do you know what is the largest power plant in the US?

    It's the "virtual" one dedicated not to satisfy the needs of the US citizens, but dedicated to power what they waste in pointless consumerism.

    There is a difference between using the air conditioning, and having 17 Celsius in any hotel in Las Vegas or in the middle of the death valley.

    There is something of incredibly idiotic in moving 3 tons of steel, just to take a single person to the tobacco shop around the corner.

    There is something wrong if an average American consumes 3/4 times the water that consumes a person in other developed countries like Italy, Germany, France and so on.

    That's the point before starting to even envision the idea of a masochistic nuclear power plant, Americans (and all the western world that takes the US as a model), should be educated to understand that wasting is not progress, GDP is not progress.

    Not at all.
     
  20. PointZero

    PointZero MDL Member

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    #1780 PointZero, Aug 10, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2022
    I'm going to politely bow out of this thread and let you guys continue figuring out what the world needs to do to fix climate change.

    Nothing about Las Vegas makes sense. But it's a lot of fun! :)