good reading...

Discussion in 'Windows 8' started by fr40, Sep 8, 2013.

  1. CEW

    CEW MDL Senior Member

    Jan 21, 2011
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    #41 CEW, Sep 12, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2013
    There have been some emotionally driven responses. No need for that.

    It is quite simple. MS is doing whatever it can to get the users into the online services. Attempting to push them into the metro stuff is the beginning. That is why they are targeting the large pc user base. If they succeed, the result will more expense, more tracking and less control for the users.

    If you like that, then go ahead and support it. There is no point in pretending it is not happening.
     
  2. tic

    tic MDL Member

    Jan 28, 2011
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    MS has spent a lot of time and money coding Modern UI if you like it or not is your choice, and if you use it or not is your choice too! It doens't seem to me that Microsoft someday soon will give up on Modern UI, they already spent a lot of time fixing errors on it and making it more like users wanted with Windows 8.1 but something that many users want and they can't give is our old Win7 Start menu. Of course I have to agree the old Start menu was easier for work and of course it was more simple than Modern UI, but Modern UI gives you a totally new experience for users that want entertainment and it's easy to use on a PC if you get used to it(but either way Modern UI is made for touch), but there's one thing, MS tried to amplify the Start Menu, giving you a lot of more choices in Windows. But some users use the computer only for work, and they don't need a lot of these apps and since they use more the desktop they didn't like to be always switching from Desktop to Modern UI(that they don't even use it) and Windows for them should be Desktop only and here is where Microsoft fails, we should have bigger choices than those that came with Windows 8.1, for what I see each person wants Windows like he or she needs, is true that Windows 8.1 gives you a lot of choices to easy use if you only need to use desktop, those people who don't need Modern UI you can simply disable corners, choose to when clicking in start button and open an Applications page and if you really don't want to see Modern UI -> boot to desktop is there, but in my opinion we should have more choices like giving you the option to have the old start menu for an easier work experience, those who wan't only Modern UI (maybe for use on tablets and on touch PCs) Microsoft should give an option to tottaly eliminate desktop this would be good for people that use Windows RT since it is for ARM processors and Microsoft doesn't allow to build desktop programs for it making it useful only to use Office 2013, not counting with Jailbreak since the common user doesn't know what it is. And another option should be stay like it is an Modern UI and Desktop experience for thoose who need the both, the problem here is that Microsoft tried to give the same experience in all their devices and that is making some users get forced to use the Modern UI, and some don't need it or don't simply like it but on the other side there are users that like it and Modern UI is not a problem for them, but those who don't like it are being forced to use something that they don't really need and there is something that Microsoft should do better giving the user more choice.
     
  3. PGHammer

    PGHammer MDL Senior Member

    Oct 14, 2011
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    R29k, you are the sort of user I was referring to - you don't want any change at all to Windows; you would insist that Windows stay as it was with Windows 7 and not evolve.

    For new hardware, you are instead insisting on a clean-sheet approach - no backward compatibility. No hybrids. Stratification and niche-ification - basically the Apple/Google model.

    In other words, how DARE Microsoft actually offer an option instead of stratification and niche-ification!

    That is exactly what Windows 8 and 8.1 is - an option. Windows RT is yet a third option - for those that want to stay in the Microsoft ecosystem, but don't need backward-compatibility.

    Windows 7 hasn't gone anywhere - in fact, until 2021, it isn't going anywhere.

    And why shouldn't Microsoft push online services, cloud services, and other sorts of continuing earnings and revenue (that aren't subject to the whipsawing of PC upgrade cycles)?

    And even that is an option with 8 OR 8.1 - remember, desktop applications still work, and unchanged from 7. It's choice - and totally up to the user. Nobody - not even Microsoft - is saying you have to buy into it. Contrast that to Adobe, which is saying the opposite - if you want their best software, you MUST buy into software-as-a-service - period.

    It's a molehill - not even a regulation hill, let alone a mountain.
     
  4. PGHammer

    PGHammer MDL Senior Member

    Oct 14, 2011
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    Yes - Android and iOS were indeed nibbling at Windows 7 (and Linux, and UNIX, and even the BSDs) by end-running the PC altogether. Android's attraction is price (Android tablets are cheaper than PCs and have lots of consumption-based, and mostly free or small-priced apps). iOS (and especially the iPad) is more expensive than Android, but has better quality (in terms of apps) than Android - and it has better battery life than notebooks OR netbooks. It's a two-fer; a value play compared to Android, and a price play compared to Windows et. alia.

    WindowsRT is similar in a lot of ways (especially hardware) to Android - however, it's priced above Android. It has iOS-type app quality, but is priced less than iOS (and especially the iPad). Like the iPad, it's a value play - not a price play - compared to Android. RT (and even Surface - the high end of RT) IS a price-play compared to the iPad - the current run of Surface adds gleefully points that out. Windows 8 (and 8.1) offer both the similar (if not identical) app selection as RT, on both hybrid devices, and any device capable of running 7 - and a lot of the hardware that could run Vista, along with that seriously-large (and qualitatively-superior) Win32 (and growing Windows x64, in the case of the x64 versions of both OSes) software libraries. Maximum choice - on hardware of the user's choice. Can any of you tell me what - in the way of either software or hardware - do Windows 8 or 8.1 users give up by leaving Windows 7? I was able to bring all of my desktop applications from 7 to 8 (and 8.1) - not some or most, but all. (Basically, in terms of software, I gave up nothing.) What software (utilities) I did give up was due to said utility software becoming moot due to software included with the OS itself. Hardware-wise, I gave up nothing. (I've kept all the hardware in the migration - no hardware was mooted or required upgrading in the upgrade; rather surprising, due to none of the hardware being of current vintage.) Those with more modern hardware than I have ALSO generally give up nothing. (Except in the case of certain notebooks or netbooks , I have not heard of even portables being mooted by a move from 7 to either 8 or 8.1; in contrast, quite a few portables got mooted going from XP to either Vista or 7.) In short, except for really old hardware, you can upgrade on existing PCs. (You don't even have to buy new hardware - I didn't.) What did I lose? In fact, what does any Windows 7 user really lose other than the Start menu? The argument against 8 or 8.1 is, in fact, very emotionally freighted - and largely ridiculous when looked at with any objectivity. (I came into the start of my own look at Windows 8 with the Developer Preview, and I was, in fact, a major skeptic for the same reason behind the rather emotion-driven criticism - the lack of a Start menu. After running the Developer Preview in dual-boot with 7 (and seeing it supplant 7 as primary OS before the Consumer Preview arrived), my skepticism was proved to be pointless; I could indeed live without the Start menu, and on a desktop PC with no touch support. (That is also why I have no use whatever for utilities such as Classic Shell or StartIsBack+ - I'd have to miss something about the Start menu to need any such utility.) Basically, I was where you were - however, my own objectivity forced me to realize that any argument for staying put was emotion-driven and rather silly.

    Is Windows 8.1 perfect? No, it's not - to expect perfection from an OS (or anything put together OR designed by imperfect humans) is asking for Senor Murphy to show up and prove why his word is Law. However - looked at objectively - it's certainly no worse, and is actually a bit better, and on the same hardware, compared to Windows 7 or Windows 8. My biggest quibbles (and I'm honest about them being quibbles) with Windows 8.1 are primarily in terms of the help system and documentation, especially in terms of troubleshooting Windows Update and Windows PowerShell - however, both areas have been rather poorly documented going back to Vista, if not XP.
     
  5. Whiznot

    Whiznot MDL Member

    Nov 5, 2009
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    Thanks to the OP for the good read. I've been a fan of Mr. Ghazi's Tweaking Companion OS guides for many years. Mr. Ghazi's is one of the best Windows writers and his criticism is on target.
     
  6. R29k

    R29k MDL GLaDOS

    Feb 13, 2011
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    #46 R29k, Sep 13, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2013
    @PGHammer, you are in support of a Jack of all Trades OS and I am not, simple as that. Also tablets can never compete with a pc, they are nothing but a fad. In reality you cannot do any proper work on a tablet unless you are maybe an artist. Do you really see the office of the future having just a tablet sitting on the desk? :eek: Windows RT is a flop plain and simple no matter how you try to spin it. Might I also ask you what did you gain by moving from 7 to 8 since you said you lost nothing ?
     
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