One problem with science is that for every answer you get ten more questions arise that needs answers so the quest just becomes more and more complex
I don't disagree with you here but up until the 1800s(?) science was Natural Philosophy, was it not? I believe science and philosophy split with the rise of modern empirical sconce, no longer any need for convoluted metaphysics to explain observable reality. A PhD in science is Dr Of Philosophy as opposed to lawyers’ Doctor Of Laws. As far as I know and from my readings of books in the early 1900s the philosophy of science was the pursuit of how we came to accept scientific truth and the existence of objective knowledge, as opposed to most everyone else who veered towards meaning/epistemology.
As a vivid reader and a science lover my views of science is this. I'm very much in agreement with current descriptions of science and scientific method as consistent with current views of methodological naturalism . I would argue that the reason we have so much disagreement is that there is a significant misunderstanding as to what science is, and what it can accomplish. It is the social organization of heuristic , which is an individual activity of problem solving.
Free will doesn't exist If God is omniscient. God has to be omniscient and omnipotent otherwise it is not God! Whether it will have an impact on free will depends on what you think God is really. A humanized concept of God as portrayed in Religion will have God being an entity that can interact directly ie. personal God and asking for favours etc. Free will cannot exist with a Religious God, it's quite obvious isn't it! I don't want to bash anyone's Religion but Judgement Day and God doesn't make sense ! If you know the ultimate destiny of someone even before they born then what purpose does a Judgement Day serve ?! God as a system or existing outside the system is more plausible, with no interaction. This makes the Maya Illusion the only viable concept if you absolutely need to fit God into the equation.
IMHO, you answered your own question when you said that GOD is "something else" and the humanized religious form of GOD makes no sense. (To me, anyway) I believe that we live many lives. During each lifetime, we enter this world with a set of propensities (i.e. we have the potential to make a mistake and cause ourselves or others harm) Because we have free will, we can choose a different (perhaps more enlightened) path. At the end of each life, we are "judged" in the sense of having the opportunity to examine our mistakes and learn from them. With that said, GOD is not what we think GOD is. But, since we are dealing with faith, we don't know, we have no frame of reference in this world, and we can't prove what GOD is. We can only choose a belief system that feels comfortable to us. (More free will... )
Is there really any free will? I don't think free will exists, we are as free as a rabbit in a cage with the cage being death. Many paths to the same thing. Maybe when you die the free will starts to exist, but in this life it is non existent. Another thing I have issue with is this whole rewards at the end of the journey concept. We are so busy thinking up ways to reward or torture ourselves after death that we may not have realized that we are not the center of everything! Maybe ignorance is truly bliss.
I have come to find that the idea that I am my body has required a whole lot of illusion to keep the idea of separation paramount in my daily life .. This idea of separation is well supported everywhere I look however I believe it conceals the truth of who I am .. For this moment I am not my body, the veil is lifted and the truth of who and what I am is revealed ..
@R29K: You are free to choose how you treat others. You are free to attach emotions (feelings) to a situation. You are free to choose one path over another. We all have the freedom to change the course of our lives. Or to do nothing at all. To me, that's free will. But, with that free will, there comes the responsibility of accepting the consequences of our choices. @R29K: Perhaps the journey is the reward.
As the original question of this thread says- Let's say for the sake of argument that the God exists (as we know). This God is all knowing and all powerful, etc... So this God creates us (I mean human) and gives human free will. Wouldn't the god's omniscience kind of negate free will? I mean the God would know what you are going to do before you do it... that to me seems a touch shy of a free will. That is more akin to predestination, as all pathways you would "choose" would be within the mind of the creator ahead of time. Does that make sense to anyone or am I crazy?!?
I guess, you mean to say Of course, it's a matter of degree as to when you might say you did something against your will. Sometimes, for instance, we buy things that we think are overpriced. I might say that I really didn't want to pay hundred bucks more for a iphone5 but I needed it badly, so I paid it. Was buying the iphone5 done against my will?!?
@sid: No. You chose to buy the device. And, you chose to accept the emotional (and financial consequences)
This doesn't hold. If one cannot understand the properties of the God, how can one reason about it at all. This argument kills faith. Nobody can have faith if they don't know what it is they have faith in. This is just another one of those where theists insert uncertainty, and then pretend like they've won.
Only God truly would have free will, as I said previously free will is non existent. Sure you have some choices as Michaela pointed out, but ultimately you are bound by the rules of the creator. Also right now, whether God exists or not, there is no free will. Your destination has already been determined and you have so many boundaries . Now if God were to make you a God also then it would be interesting.
Everyone is free to be stupid. That's why we have religion in the first place. It saddens me that in the 21st century, after countless years of education, struggle and scientific progress, there are still people making s**t up they have not the slightest proof for and we are still fighting wars with other people who are making s**t up. There are people sitting in psychiatric institutions for the harm that's caused by their mental illness, yet reiligious nutjobs who start wars and indoctrinate children with their unproven views are running around freely. If we hadn't overcome the tyranny of religion this far, the earth would still be believed flat and you couldn't write a message the whole world can see instantly. I have one hope and that is that in 100 years, you can make the same poll "Free will doesn't exist If God is omniscient." and the first counter-question you get is "Excuse me, who?". That's when humanity will be truly free. Until then, the struggle continues.
I'm more confused about your concept "free will": you believe in some type of compatibilist free will, but it's very hard to see how that concept you propose would be in any way affected by omniscience. I mean, if we ( Michaela Joy and sid_16) exchanged our thought here at MDL because we responded each other, etc., what does it matter if a few billion years earlier God decided that Michaela Joy would respond to sid_16, and set up the initial conditions and the laws of the universe to achieve that goal? Psychologically, you're the same regardless of whether you were the result of godless determinism, or of omniscient creator determinism. In a possible world where God exists and fates you, Michaela Joy does not seem to have free will (in the sense you use the expression), but in a possible world where God doesn't exist, Michaela Joy has free will (or rather, acts "out of his own free will"), but at both worlds, Michaela Joy and sid_16 are psychologically the same...
We are free to choose whatever thoughts we want to entertain at any given moment including assigning attributes to a concept of God we may not even know however ask yourself why do you find it necessary to do so ?
For some believing in a concept of God is certainly not a requirement to entertaining thoughts about God and/or assigning attributes to describe a concept of God as is evidenced in this thread .. For some simply calling/accepting it a mystery is all that is needed
@sid_16: IMHO, we can't really understand what GOD is. We all have different (and sometimes opposing) viewpoints. @sid_16: Actually, faith is the most important thing here. Without it, we wouldn't want to believe in anything. And those who have faith simply acquiesce and let them believe whatever they choose. Ultimately, it's their decision as to whether or not to believe in anything.
we have shed seas of blood, over the centuries.. in the name of the omniscient bloody god.. did we have a free choice? of course we had! the choice to respect our fellow men and forget the whole concept of any god.. alas we did not take it.. time that we do.. thoughts from an atheist who loves people..