If God is Omniscient then Human is not free.

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by sid_16, Apr 9, 2013.

?

Free will doesn't exist If God is omniscient.

  1. If yes, why?

    37 vote(s)
    45.1%
  2. If no, then how?

    45 vote(s)
    54.9%
  1. PCBONEZ

    PCBONEZ MDL Member

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    #1821 PCBONEZ, Feb 14, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2017
    You can distance yourself from it, but you can't make it go away.
    (Short of leaving this planet, which is only a "might work".)

    Even if you acquired an isolated island somewhere and were completely self sustaining and you shut out the entire rest of humanity, you are still in danger. The prevalent stupidity of the retarded masses (like that so using it) may put into place (or allow) some nut-job to be their leader. If said leader sets off the next global war your isolation may not be enough.

    ~~~~~~~~

    “I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.”
    .............................................................
    Albert Einstein
    .
     
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  2. PCBONEZ

    PCBONEZ MDL Member

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    #1822 PCBONEZ, Feb 14, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2017
    You asked. - I answered.
    Don't ask if you don't want an answer.
     
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  3. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    Don't. Just don't. Relent.

    Btw, I didn't ask anything. I stated.
     
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  4. PCBONEZ

    PCBONEZ MDL Member

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    Not true. A little lesson in grammar.

    [gorski] Who said "discard"? <- That's called a question.
    [gorski] I didn't. <- That's called a statement.
    [PCBONEZ] I saw it as implied. <- Perfectly reasonable answer to the question you asked.

    You have no valid reason to be copping an attitude about this.

    I can't tell if that's a request/instruction to me or a statement of your intent/condition.
    That was a statement BTW.
    I don't care to know. Just pointing it out.
     
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  5. Katzenfreund

    Katzenfreund MDL Expert

    Jul 15, 2016
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    OK, as a diversion from off topic disputes, I’ll try to contend that the problem of human freedom lies less in god’s omniscience and more in His omnipotence.

    Omniscience: Imagine I am a bystander and see a car about to hit a lamp-post.
    I know it’s going to hit it, but the driver was still free to have avoided the collision.
    So my knowledge did not deprive him of freedom.
    Consequently there’s no paradox.

    Now, why didn’t I stop him? Because I couldn’t. And here enters omnipotence.

    The real question is now, if god knows what bad actions we are going to perform AND He is also omnipotent, why did He create us so that we’d perform those actions? Conversely, if He create us as He wanted, how can we be free and responsible for what we do?

    QED
     
  6. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
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    PCB, a little lesson in thinking:

    Me:


    You:
    Note the point of "I want a fight in order to self-aggrandise", while quibbling silly.

    This is how thinking clearly looks like for you: obviously one must consider these Qs first, see if one can or can not come to any reasoned As and if not, if one can not either prove or disprove it, then one does not allow oneself to be drawn into such Qs any more and turns to those that actually one does influence, the Qs of our world, the one we influence, where our As matter and we make a difference.

    This is where agnostics put their energy - not quibbling on such absurd and suddenly invented "issues" - is that "discarded" or "left open". This is missing the woods for trees, Big Brain. The nature of the Q is such that Humans can never answer them, by definition, definitively, in any meaningful manner. So, agnostics don't allow themselves to be drawn into them.

    The Q for agnostics is not "unanswered" but "unanswerable" by definition, hence your "logic" is "flogging a dead horse".

    Turn to something more productive, whereby you actually can do it. In Philosophy, you are an amateur.
     
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  7. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

    Jul 26, 2012
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    @gorski: That's the place that I came to with respect to engaging in these kinds of discussions. One can only state their position(s) and leave it at that. Anything else is only allowing your emotions to rule. From there you can only spiral downward into an angry and heated debate.

    I must admit that I am as well. :eek:
     
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  8. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    MJ, I object to his hoity-toity tone, picking up fights everywhere, with complete disregard of various possibilities, other than his own, yes...

    Agnosticism has many different "faces" and not surprisingly so, so when one tries to "teach me" in such a tone... urrgghh...
     
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  9. Mr.X

    Mr.X MDL Guru

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    Good thing here is that anyone can philosophize at their own pace, IQ, emotions and past experiences.
    :cool: I love to philosophize whenever wherever I can and like.
     
  10. Mr.X

    Mr.X MDL Guru

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    LOL everytime I read your posts I need to open a couple of browser tabs, one for idiom/slang dictionary and other dictionary.cambridge.org :shok: :D
     
  11. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    :D You can learn something new every day... if you're still human... :D
     
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  12. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

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    @Mr.X: So true. Same here. :)
     
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  13. Mr.X

    Mr.X MDL Guru

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    #1833 Mr.X, Feb 14, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2017
    Agreed. But not every darn hour or minute depending on your posting rate... :eek::mad::D:cool:

    Your brain is "philosophically" wired. Mine, "scientifically" and "beerly" (beer) wired.
    Down to Earth mate, down to Earth your writing style please. :D
     
  14. Joe C

    Joe C MDL Guru

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    Somebody give gorski a beer
     
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  15. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

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    How 'bout a round for everybody :)

    :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
     
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  16. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    Mr X - so "down to beer"... until one gets "down to Earth"? :eek: OK, I'm up for it...:p 'till I'm down... with it... :D :D :D
     
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  17. PCBONEZ

    PCBONEZ MDL Member

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    I agree.
    Seems like gorski goes out of his way to be misunderstood.
     
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  18. PCBONEZ

    PCBONEZ MDL Member

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    Pot Kettle Black
    But you take it further.
    You disagree with me even when I am agreeing with you.
     
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  19. nodnar

    nodnar MDL Expert

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    lol.:D https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophist don`t you understand, my dear pcbones? he is a philosopher..;)
     
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  20. PCBONEZ

    PCBONEZ MDL Member

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    Thank you Sir (or Ma'am)
    Yes I'm aware of it. He says it so often.
     
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