More proof that Microsoft Windows Defender / MSE suck badly

Discussion in 'Application Software' started by ian82, Apr 27, 2013.

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  1. edee

    edee MDL Novice

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    #41 edee, May 5, 2013
    Last edited: May 5, 2013
    Lets be honest about this, in a perfect world you would be right but as we all know this is not a perfect world and the internet is even FAR less perfect. Every single day completely legit websites get hacked and have viruses / malware, trojans and keyloggers injected into them, some get caught right away, a lot do not.

    You said this yourself
    So after what you stated above, lets say for instance, PayPal or Ebay gets hacked and has malicious code injected into them, these are sites that people use their credit card, banking info and do transactions on a daily basis, would YOU yourself feel safe using MSE with it's current security rating on a legitimate but hacked site knowing that your credit card or banking information can be stolen? I know I wouldn't.

    So lets be honest here, MSE isn't worth the time it took for Microsoft to build, and they didn't even build it!, can't remember the name of the comany but Microsoft bought this antivirus software from someone else. If anyone else can remember the company please say something, it's been some years ago.
     
  2. Daz

    Daz MDL Developer / Admin
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    #42 Daz, May 5, 2013
    Last edited: May 5, 2013
    Big popular sites never really get attacked like that though. They have developers patching code and checking their servers regularly. Like when have you heard of eBay getting hacked so that it infects people, or even PayPal or YouTube for that matter? Most of the time the only "hack" performed is when the user is prompted to download an executable and then they'll run it. That or the users downloaded cracked software which has changed their hosts file, so it'll redirect them to scam websites or websites that download other trojans.

    You ask me would I feel safe using MSE, but as I've stated, on one of my notebooks I don't use any anti-virus and I've not been infected in over 10 years. So yes, I believe that if you stick to the popular websites and buy genuine software then for the average joe MSE is fine. And as an example of that I've got older people in my family who use the internet and I know they've got MSE installed, but all they ever do is go on websites like eBay, YouTube and stuff. They don't download cracked software, visit weird websites online or anything like that. I've never had to fix one of their systems due to a virus, yet I've been asked to fix friends PC's time and time again. The difference? The friends use torrents and will sometimes visit obscure websites. And these people are the ones with better anti-viruses installed, yet they're still getting infected. So I honestly do believe it comes down to a users behaviour online more than anything.

    Like I said in my first post, MSE is designed for the casuals. Microsoft has never said that you shouldn't change the anti-virus or claimed that theirs is the best solution on the market. It's simply a fast basic solution and it does what it's intended to do. So if you're a user that downloads a lot from torrent websites and goes to obscure websites online then of course you should better protect yourself. However, if you're a person that just watches YouTube, visits facebook and chats with your friends via Skype or something, all while downloading your software from the Microsoft store then you've got much less to worry about and MSE will probably be enough for you.
     
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  3. edee

    edee MDL Novice

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  4. ian82

    ian82 MDL Expert

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    #44 ian82, May 5, 2013
    Last edited: May 5, 2013
    (OP)
    good point you have there.

    I respect what you said and even though I am a very safe usrfer and don't have any cracked software or what not, I would not even risk running with MSE. I'd take anything like AVG or avast which is free any time of the day

    I also use MVPS hosts file, SUPERAntiSpyware (on demand), MBAM (on demand), AdBlock Plus, DoNotTrackMeh FF extension, LastPass, Google OptOut (opts out of Google Tracking)
     
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  5. edee

    edee MDL Novice

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    #45 edee, May 5, 2013
    Last edited: May 5, 2013
    Like I said legitimate sites get hacked every day, just because PayPal or Ebay hasn't yet does not mean it will not or cannot happen.

    I look at it this way, if hackers like those of Anonymous can hack government mainframes then ....... NOTHING is sacred.:dunno: And I am sorry, but untill Microsoft gets their act together, improves MSE and gets a halfway decent security rating I would not even think about nor recommend it to anyone, regardless of their surfing habits.

    I myself also fix and repairs computers also and I find a 75 - 25% ratio, 75% of those I have to remove trojans,malware, worms and trojans are running MSE, the other 25% are usually running some off the wall antivirus software or AVG free.

    As you can see from the graphics in the previous posts Avast! Free has about a 97% detection rate, and you would recommend MSE over that? :confused: C'mon now, I know most of the forums like this are pro Microsoft, but when something sucks .......... it just SUCKS I don't care who's product it is.
     
  6. ian82

    ian82 MDL Expert

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    and that makes me wonder... when MSE does so horrible, and the free offerings blow it out of the water (not even talking paid solutions here, just free ones) it just kills me that MSE has so many fans and supporters..

    people are so lazy these days they would rather get the worst AV in the world (heck I wouldn't even classify it as an AV in my books) just because it comes through Windows updates (yeah MS wants to force people to live in an *illusion* that they are a secure OS) rather than installing one of the decent free options.

    I don't want MSE to match AVG or avira, at least if it gets to 50% where they're at I would understand those people installing it coz they can't be bothered to download something else and install.
     
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  7. Daz

    Daz MDL Developer / Admin
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    #47 Daz, May 5, 2013
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  8. edee

    edee MDL Novice

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  9. edee

    edee MDL Novice

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    #50 edee, May 7, 2013
    Last edited: May 7, 2013
    Don't know if it is necessarily better but it is certified.
    The Enterprise Edition (which is Microsoft System Center 2012) , much like Nortons Endpoint Protection have a few more bells and whistles because they are made to run on servers and not really meant for home use.
     
  10. Weedy

    Weedy MDL Member

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    Is there anyone in this thread with a large ish collection of malware that would be able to test MSE vs SCEP2012? I know it's not technically legit for a home user to have scep, however, purely for educational purposes it would be interesting to see how they compare (Yes, I've googled it, no I can't find a direct comparison)

    You can find scepinstall.exe by googling, also the hash is a good thing to google for... 9aeb45d54695d3d5bbe43620e70c31fe
     
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    #52 =)(=, May 7, 2013
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  12. LostED

    LostED SVF Patch Lover

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    #53 LostED, May 7, 2013
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    I installed the client now but i don't see any more scanning engines.. i guess they are built in to the server part and not to the client. So this is basically a MSE with different name and icon??? :p
     
  14. Weedy

    Weedy MDL Member

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    SCEP seems to have network inspection and heuristics turned on by default, however MSE doesn't have those options. (I always thought that MSE on win7 could turn them on, but I checked earlier on the pc at work and MSE didn't have those options available)
     
  15. Daz

    Daz MDL Developer / Admin
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    #56 Daz, May 8, 2013
    Last edited: May 8, 2013
    @ edee
    As I've done work in the web development area I can tell you that companies such as PayPal should have people and software monitoring their website constantly, so if by some chance someone managed to inject code one of their systems would notice that a file has been changed and the alarms will sound. They would instantly lock down the website for "maintenance". Now, compare that to designfjotten and I can tell you right away that that website is probably hackable. It's running on Joomla and there's been a few 0day exploits for it this year. The guy to do it wouldn't be a "hacker", but a script kiddie. They're probably even a member of that forum.

    Windows 8 comes with a form of MSE, so the people who visit the mainstream websites should be fine. Should be being the key words, because there's always a chance that something will slip through, but I would bet on the user getting infected by software long before a website. And like I said before, Microsoft don't say not to use any other anti-virus. I only replied here because things like this were said:

    It's greatly exaggerated as it does stop a lot of stuff that would otherwise infect you. And sure, it may not be as good as some of the other software, but it's free and comes with your PC depending on your OS. And while I agree that it could be improved I think it's better to use creative criticism than to simply say it's crap or that it sucks badly. So for example, you'd like it to have a better database right? Then how do you suggest they build a better database? Should they crawl websites or have the anti-virus inspect more of your personal files?

    I never fully trust Microsoft, but I also don't trust these comparison results. I believe that if you want to compare something in a fair way then you should do some tests yourself in a virtual machine.
     
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  16. edee

    edee MDL Novice

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    #57 edee, May 8, 2013
    Last edited: May 9, 2013
    You are probably right a about PayPal, even though they catch it, we both know new types of malicious scripts and code is written everyday and unless AV companies and IT people are not ontop of it bad things can happen, we both know that some or most of these AV companies do not deliver updates for some viruses, worms, trojans or what have you for sometimes days or weeks at a time. As for designfjotten, you are probably right, but it is a perfect example of an innocent, semi mainstream website having code injected into it, and I'll say it again because you keep skipping around it ..... NO website or company no matter how big or how good their security is not beyond being taken down, taken advantage of or their users being exposed to it.

    Yes I agree, MSE can be improved upon .... alot, Yes it may stop a lot of stuff, but there is also a lot of stuff it does not stop, a lot of stuff that EVEN if it does stop that it cannot remove, a lot of stuff that it does not stop from getting to your system UNTIL after it has gotten in and STILL cannot remove. So in my words of saying that MSE sucks, or sucks badly, Is because there are so many other free options as far as antivirus go that sparkle in comparison to MSE, and I will keep saying it until MSE can prove me wrong

    I really do not believe I should have to, not when so many independent companies come up with similar test results, like I said, companies that have nothing invested whatsoever on whether something passes or fails. The only ones that seem to come up with better results is Microsoft themselves, If someone other that Microsoft can justify the numbers Microsoft comes up with I may rethink it.

    I don't believe that you and I will ever see eye to eye on this, so I am just going to call this a stalemate, let's agree to disagree, I'm am really tired of writing about this, obviously you use MSE and feel comfortable with it and you have never been infected while usuing it, I will tell you this though, the first time you do get infected while using it and MSE does nothing about it or it cannot remove it, you'll drop it like a bad habbit.
     
  17. Weedy

    Weedy MDL Member

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    Perfect. Now could you post the results of scanning with regular MSE please? :p
     
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