@NaiveUser: I couldn't see the point of further discussions when so many(if not all) of your points are based on guesses and assumptions and biased views, bye.
to me, that is totally normal for a discussion about speculating on undisclosed stuff, and most of your post is too. but, at least one point IS FACT. this is what vb4112 said: "mini-start is a 'component', and it is somehow 'related' to explorer.exe." this is what you said: "ministart is part of explorer.exe" these two are totally different, and the difference invalidate your point.
Sorry, NaiveUser, I couldn't see the difference except the use of wording. And I also couldn't see even if I described in a wrong way, what has it to with whether start menu is in current build 982x or not. Where did you find Zac "knows" start menu is present in current builds? He knows better than Brad Sams who couldn't tell if the 982x's has start menu? Wow!!
The thing is, the Start menu has been in Threshold builds, so it still has to be around in some branches, even if it isn't in the preview branch (which I highly doubt since the point of the preview is to show enterprises why they should trust in Microsoft and Windows vNext) that doesn't mean it doesn't exist and that it won't be in Threshold once it RTMs.
Once again, you don't understand windows, the wording makes a big difference, naiveuser is right about this.
@BAVO, that's more reasonable, because all I had said(and so was the PCBeta guy) was that the start menu is not in current builds 982x, and Brad Sams couldn't verify if it was there either, we had said it may or may not be in the Preview, or in later releases, right? Edit: just saw your next post, but I am not going to discuss on that. You could keep the thought for all I care. Edit2: I think it's quite funny, because you guys like to say"you don't understand windows" .... either it's there , or it's not, it's that simple, why has it need to do with "understand windows"? Brad Sams had actually seen 982x builds, I am quite sure he understand Windows, yet he couldn't verify if the start menu is there, or not. Tom Warren had not seen any 982x builds, and he used something like "complex engineering" to prove I was wrong, lmao.
I knew you weren't going to care, but in case anyone's interested in what exactly the difference is: (I recommend you do read this, Faikee) If the mini-start is part of Explorer.exe and the PCBeta guy can't find it that means it either isn't there or it can be enabled through a simple registry tweak, if mini-start is a component related to Explorer.exe it's not located in explorer.exe, but in another file, without that file there's no trace of mini-start, with that file it works perfectly. It's like shsxs.dll in the early Windows 8 leaks, the metro interface was a component related to explorer.exe, but without shsxs.dll there was no trace of the new metro interface!
well, maybe that's too technical for you, but thats completely different. and I was not talking about 'whether start menu is in certain builds or not'. I was talking about your assumtion that "Microsoft can't hide a feature unless they ship two different version of explorer.exe binary. and if they are ship same binary, vb4112 will certainly see it. technically, it is totally possible for Microsoft to hide a feature without shipping two different version of explorer.exe. the way to do it is countless. my point is, vb4112 didn't see it, doesn't mean it is not in any builds. actually, vb4112 also said this: "EVENT IF mini-start is not in the preview build, it could be added to it with later updates."
Well, I believe you 2 guys are based on the assumption that "a component related to explorer.exe" couldn't mean, in VB's way of posting Chinese "a component located inside explorer.exe" right? So why not wait until you guys has a hands-on of a build with start menu and find it out? btw, @NaiveUser: that's what I had been saying, same as VB: the start menu may or may not be in the Preview, or if not in the Preview, than may be in a later release, so please leave this point alone, OK? OK, sorry guys, just finished something on-hand and before going to bed, so: VB was not writing some formal paper, he could be just sending out his post with his phone while doing who-knows-what, and it's in Chinese, please don't try to hold on just a casually written remark thru translation and take it as a important point to argue, like I said, either it's there, in the current build 982x, or is not, if you guys couldn't verify it, wait and see if Brad Sams could do that, OK?
Well if this is all true.... good luck getting people off previous OS's Microsoft just F*cked themselves again.... The whole point of the next gen OS or even the tech preview was to show that one of the main features was coming back to please the the retail consumers... People are just going to stick to 7 even after they end full support. Not to mention that that they want to release Windows 9 AFTER Christmas. OEMS PISSED GG Microsoft.
I have my own translator, who is native chinese speaker, also familiar with cantonese, and he is also very technical, you can trust him. and vb4112's wording can hardly be streched to mean 'inside explorer.exe', but whatever, thats not that important. actualy, vb4112's complete statement was this. "Windows Next doesn't have mini-start currently (temporarily). but I can't exclude the possibility that its just my builds don't have this feature. BECAUSE, the so-called MiniStart is a component, which has something to do with explorer.exe" so, whatever vb4112 is saying in the third sentence, the important point is, he was using that as THE REASON to explain why he can't exclude the possibilty that MiniStart can be included in some builds/branch he didn't see. but you FaiKee, was using that exact same reason, to prove MiniStart was nowhere, that's funny.
I know about that mock up start menu just right click on the start button but that doesn't please the people. Thanks for the heads up though. its not about "aesthetics" its about mouse optimizations and the familiarity of the location of apps and settings. OEM's pay a certain amount of money to get unlimited key uses which is a one time deal after that Microsoft makes most of their money off Retail Consumer copies of Windows OS. say 150$ x roughly a 250 million copies is more then a one time OEM deal. P.S I dont care what anyone says PC Market will never die cause Mobile games suck.
If you must know, last build I had seen is 9819. It's not really on a seen-basis, more what you're told from the source (in my case). You cannot ask me whether or not the Start Menu is in the most recent builds, however I can tell you it 'was' in Threshold, I saw it with my own two eyes. What I can say however is that the intention of the Microsoft Tech Preview is to demonstrate how awesome Windows is for Enterprises, and the Start Menu is kind-of the big thing they want to get out to Enterprise users. The Start Menu will definitely be in the preview, 100%. If it isn't there when Microsoft launch the preview initially, I will be shocked to no-end. This has nothing to do with the naming "Windows 9" or codename 9 or anything 9. We are talking strictly Threshold here. Okay? Warren is right when he says Windows engineering is complex, and this year it's never been more truer. The multiple branches and builds have had me on edge the entire time. One minute a feature will be in Threshold and the next minute it won't be. With a click of the fingers a feature can be removed. That's just how it is. FaiKee, do tell me, when you mention the Start Menu not being in Windows 9, what are you actually referencing? Windows 9 or Threshold. Because we all know you believe Windows 9 and Threshold are different. Let us know that, and we can look further into this.
Exactly, what those people at PCBeta we're doing we're posting fake news to p*** us all off, the start menu is in the latest 'Threshold' builds.
wow you are quick precisely why suggest MS build a feature into the OS to allow easy editing of that menu.