[PLEASE READ] Microsoft and Privacy

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by Michaela Joy, Aug 5, 2015.

  1. pirithous

    pirithous MDL Member

    Dec 17, 2014
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    #441 pirithous, Aug 27, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2015
    Another thing to consider about the uptake of Windows 10, is that a lot of upgrades have already been completed. People got overtly excited about the opportunity to ditch Windows 8.x, saw the word "free", and started foaming at the mouth. Some of these people have reverted back to Windows 7 or switched to another OS after learning that Windows 10 spies on the user, even when turning off the defaults. There's not much growth room for new Windows 10 installs as the PC market is winding down after many decades, and Windows Phone is a total laughing joke. Not only does the hardware suck on average for Windows Phone, but the UI is very ugly. By the way, when's the last time you saw a Nokia phone in the wild? I haven't seen one since over 10 years ago. I've also yet to see a Surface tablet in any coffee shop or public place. Since mobile is a nonstarter for MS, this is a big concern for them as that is where the money is at. That's why Windows 10 is all about usurping (or "us-slurping") your privacy and making you pay to play.

    It's not sounding like the enterprise if very interested in Windows 10. Windows 10 has to take away from market share to gain market share, which predominately would be Windows 8.x's 15-16% market share. It's looking like Windows 7's market share is going to hold pretty steady. As time progresses, more people are catching on to the privacy concerns surrounding Windows 10; after the Snowden revelations a myriad of even non-technical people started thinking twice about their online privacy and data security. This anti-Windows 10 movement seems to be spreading everywhere. Every comment section you look at on any article about Windows 10 has people talking about the spying aspect. These people tell friends and family, and then those friends tell friends and so on.

    If I were an investor in Microsoft stock, I definitely would not be betting on Windows 10. Is making people pay to not see ads in solitaire when the same game is available in Windows 7 a good business plan? Is it a good business plan to foist an app store on consumers that run Windows because they want Win32 apps, and those that want an app store will almost always go Apple or Android? How about the developers that are going to be having a 30% cut taken from them for having their app in the app store, when they were able to market their existing Win32 application just fine over the internet and take 100% of the proceeds? What if a developer gets into a dispute with Microsoft, and MS pulls their app from the app store indefinitely?

    There are many concerns from a developer's point of view, which is why we're not seeing the Windows 10 app store take off. I don't think it ever will. Windows 10 is an OS for 2 different types of people:

    1. Sheep
    2. MDL tinkerers
     
  2. PaulDesmond

    PaulDesmond MDL Magnet

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    clowns are not welcome to any place hun. Check whom you talk with:eek:
     
  3. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

    Jul 26, 2012
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    #443 Michaela Joy, Aug 27, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2015
    (OP)
    @MysTikAl3: Here's the link. http://archive.is/esgMV

    It appears to be MS spin. I can understand that, and their need for damage control.

    @eko_p: It's important to look at both sides of this picture before making a determination as to the validity of what We're saying. It's also important to realize that I am -not- referring to technical issues, except in the sense of using those tools to determine the validity of our concerns.

    I will outline a simple test plan to determine the facts.

    1 ) take a PC with Windows 10, home edition installed, and place it on a network, by itself, with a monitoring appliance that is separate from the machine in question. (Perhaps a sonicWall?) Virtual machines will -not- suffice, because the machine is already is a running state, and is prepared for any testing / probing.

    2 ) Run the machine from a cold start, and capture -every- packet sent or received, via -any- network protocol.
    Packets -must- be captured before the GUI starts. This is the most vulnerable point of the running OS.
    Do it a couple of times, over the span of, say, 3 days. The longer the better, as these events may very well be sporadic and may not happen on a regular basis.

    3 ) Now, save the firewall logs and install any anti-spyware you may feel will protect you. Repeat steps 1 and 2.

    Now compare the logs. What is going out? What is coming in?

    That will indicate, beyond a shadow of a doubt, whether Windows 10 Home is safe, and whether or not you can protect yourself from spying.

    I welcome any opinions. I welcome any takers.

    :MJ
     
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  4. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

    Jul 26, 2012
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    @Paul: I have my suspicions. However, I will always show respect, simply because it's what I stand for. :)

    If someone chooses to abuse that respect, it's on them. And whatever happens to them is their own doing.
     
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  5. eko_p

    eko_p MDL Novice

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    #445 eko_p, Aug 27, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2015
    ^ ???
    Ms Joy already find the article I'm talking about and post the link.

    Again if MS do beyond what they said they do and you can prove it you can sue them for real ... even my ISP have to give me compensation if their service isn't comply to what we're agreed for.
    You don't have to be tech savvy to go to court ... just search for prove on the net, try it for yourself and you have base for your law suit.

    I think there's one possible explanation why there's this privacy concern with win10 ... the insider program.
    I heard in France there's political figure there who initiate a ban for win10 because she read insider EULA :p
     
  6. pirithous

    pirithous MDL Member

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    The Verge is a total pro-Microsoft website, catering to the lowest common denominator. They write press releases for Microsoft, plain and simple. The Verge doesn't actually do any journalism, so as you can see from that link, all they did was defend Microsoft on every single count. I hope nobody actually takes that online trashy rag seriously!
     
  7. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

    Jul 26, 2012
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    @pirithous: Some will...some won't. We've seen that dynamic here at MDL.

    There are too many other sources that are poking holes in what that article says.

    So let's see what happens. :)
     
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  8. eko_p

    eko_p MDL Novice

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    Since when the verge is a total pro-Microsoft website :confused:
    I thought they're famous for pro apple :confused:
    And for me an online trashy rag is an article which don't provide any proof ... at least they have MS legal privacy statement as base.


    What they talking about is MS EULA ... a real legal document which bind MS by law.
    A legal document isn't for joke especially for big company like MS.
    Even I definitely can go to jail if I can't provide to my client as promised ... that's why I always take legal matter seriously.
     
  9. PaulDesmond

    PaulDesmond MDL Magnet

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    The guy you refer to is the one who is responsible for the x-files/ Jukebox mess. Guess why he got banned like on a daily base As long as this idiot is around, my activities are very low or better say zero. One day all his e-mail addresses are used up and we can get back to normal :D
     
  10. pirithous

    pirithous MDL Member

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    #450 pirithous, Aug 27, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2015
    An EULA will not hold up in U.S. courts, nor Swedish courts. It's not a "real legal document". It's a digital agreement that a user clicks yes to, in Microsoft's hopes that it covers their ass in case they get sued. I can make my own EULA that specifies for the user to do ridiculous and dangerous things. Do you think that will hold up in a U.S. court?
     
  11. fkar

    fkar MDL Recognized Advisor

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    Dunno what peoples are getting by wasting their time to mess up with someone and annoy them. Damn it. :eek:
     
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  12. pirithous

    pirithous MDL Member

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    Crazy people with serious problems and internet access.
     
  13. PaulDesmond

    PaulDesmond MDL Magnet

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    bad dope :cool:
     
  14. wiredfin

    wiredfin MDL Novice

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    Again, the privacy policy gives them a lot of freedom to do/see things on your computer. Even if they started removing your apps and games and take data from your computer and preserve it, they would not be doing anything illegal. So there won't be suing of any kind.

    "Finally, we will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary."

    "We may automatically check your version of the software, which is necessary to provide the Services and download software updates or configuration changes, without charging you, to update, enhance and further develop the Services, including those that prevent you from accessing the Services, playing counterfeit games or using unauthorized hardware peripheral devices."

    So they take those rights on faith belief basis! The point being with this kind of privacy statement MS can do almost ANYTHING and still be within their privacy terms.
     
  15. PaulDesmond

    PaulDesmond MDL Magnet

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    the small print is beyond its low limit for ppl without glasses :D
     
  16. wiredfin

    wiredfin MDL Novice

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    Sorry it looked big while typing and it didn't go smaller even when changing font. Apparently it changed after posting.
     
  17. PaulDesmond

    PaulDesmond MDL Magnet

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    you may want to edit your post for the handy-caped ones :D
     
  18. pirithous

    pirithous MDL Member

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    I think Microsoft's next plan may be to put ads in the screen magnifier, unless you pay a monthly charge of $1.50. For $2.50, you get up to triple zoom.
     
  19. PaulDesmond

    PaulDesmond MDL Magnet

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    lol ... if I were MS ....
     
  20. eko_p

    eko_p MDL Novice

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    What :confused:
    'An EULA doesn't hold up in U.S. court' :confused:
    'It's not a "real legal document"' :confused:
    is that seriously what you think about EULA :confused:
    Is it because it isn't on a piece of paper :confused:


    'So you've made your agenda clear, that you are pro-Microsoft and that you agree with Redmond' :biggrin:
    If I take absent of proof seriously and EULA as legal document make me pro MS I really don't how to respond to that :p


    You can't take pieces from legal document like that.
    For example 'personal data' is data they mention on 'Personal Data We Collect' section ... is not all data on your HDD.
    For the second part it's from Microsoft Services Agreement and it's related to 'Covered Services' section

    Here's the 'Covered Services' part
    The following products, apps and services are covered by the Microsoft Services Agreement, but may not be available in your market.

    • Account.microsoft.com
    • Advertising.microsoft.com
    • Arrow Launcher
    • Bing Apps
    • Bing Desktop
    • Bing Dictionary
    • Bing in the Classroom
    • Bing Input
    • Bing Maps
    • Bing Navigation
    • Bing Reader
    • Bing Rewards
    • Bing Search app
    • Bing Toolbar
    • Bing Torque
    • Bing Translator
    • Bing Webmaster
    • Bing Wikipedia Browser
    • Bing.com
    • Bing
    • Bingplaces.com
    • Choice.microsoft.com
    • Citizen Next
    • Cortana
    • Default Homepage and New Tab Page on Microsoft Edge
    • Device Health App
    • Groove
    • HealthVault
    • Maps App
    • Microsoft account
    • Microsoft Family
    • Microsoft Health
    • Microsoft Translator
    • Microsoft Wallpaper
    • Microsoft XiaoIce
    • MSN Dial Up
    • MSN Explorer
    • MSN Food & Drink
    • MSN Health & Fitness
    • MSN Money
    • MSN News
    • MSN Premium
    • MSN Sports
    • MSN Travel
    • MSN Weather
    • MSN.com
    • Next Lock Screen
    • Office 365 Consumer
    • Office 365 Home
    • Office 365 Personal
    • Office 365 University
    • Office Online
    • Office Store
    • Office Sway
    • Office.com
    • OneDrive.com
    • OneDrive
    • Onenote.com
    • OneNote
    • Outlook.com
    • Picturesque Lock Screen
    • Pix Lock
    • Skype in the Classroom
    • Skype Manager
    • Skype Qik
    • Skype WiFi
    • Skype.com
    • Skype
    • Smart Search
    • Snipp3t
    • Spreadsheet Keyboard
    • Sway.com
    • Translator
    • UrWeather
    • Windows Live Mail
    • Windows Live Writer
    • Windows Movie Maker
    • Windows Photo Gallery
    • Xbox and Windows Games published by Microsoft
    • Xbox Live
    • Xbox Music Pass
    • Xbox Music
    • Xbox Video