Question about SSD/HDD, GPT/MBR, UEFI/WindowsBootManager and Allocation Size

Discussion in 'Windows 8' started by lllFATAL1TY, Jan 13, 2014.

  1. lllFATAL1TY

    lllFATAL1TY MDL Member

    Dec 21, 2013
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    Hello,

    my new rig is almost ready, only waiting shipping DRAM :D


    the config is that:

    GA-Z87X-UD5H
    4770K
    Vengeance Pro 16GB 1866Mhz CL9 (2x 8GB)
    GTX 780 Lightning
    840 EVO 250GB
    Caviar Black 1TB


    1. I will install in UEFI mode, OK
    2. Already received a UEFI/GOP vBios for the video card from MSI Support, i will flash before install Windows for me be able to enable "Ultra Fast Boot" option, OK
    3. I will update too the firmware for the SSD and the MoBo, OK
    4. I already have a PenDrive done for install 8.1 on UEFI+GPT (created using Rufus)


    so, i have few doubts about installing Win8.1 on it:

    1. I have to do that: "Disconnect all the drives but the one you are installing to. You will reconnect them in step 5 of "System Setup after Installation." This is to prevent the installer from installing the Windows 8 boot partition on another drive in the system." ??? (source is Sean's Guide from OCN)

    2. What is the default allocation size that Windows will format my SSD and HDD? Default is ok or i have to change to another size?

    3. Its better i format SSD as GPT and let HDD as MBR? or i can format both GPT?



    Thanks and sorry for my poor english :biggrin:
     
  2. tnx

    tnx MDL Expert

    Sep 2, 2008
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    I would and do remove all drives when I am installing Windows. ( apart from the OS drive ) :biggrin:

    I am guessing your SSD is not huge, 120 or 240 GIG. I would not partition the OS drive, just let it use all of it.

    You may as well convert all drives to GPT. It does not matter though. Unless your gunna sling in a big capacity HDD then it will have to be GPT. Just using GPT from now on will be good practice I recon. You are going with Win 8 so no need for Daz's loader, so no need for MBR.

    That's my take on it..Hope it helps. :)

    :tea:
     
  3. Leolo

    Leolo MDL Member

    Jan 23, 2010
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    Your Samsung 840 EVO drive uses a 8 KiB physical page size, so the optimal NTFS allocation size would be 8 KiB.

    If your Caviar Black HD uses Advanced Format, then the physical sector size would be 4 KiB and the recommended NTFS allocation size would be 4 KiB.
     
  4. lllFATAL1TY

    lllFATAL1TY MDL Member

    Dec 21, 2013
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    #4 lllFATAL1TY, Jan 14, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 20, 2017
    (OP)
    Thanks guys!


    so, let me know if i understand:

    1. Yes, i will unplug the HDD for install Win on SSD
    2. I will let allocation size as Default
    3. I will let the HDD formated as GPT


    the last one (3): i will have to format HDD after install Windows, right?

    using these commands are OK?

    Code:
    diskpart
    list disk
    select disk #
    clean
    convert gpt
    create partition primary
    format quick fs=ntfs label="HDD"
    assign

    but i would like to create 2 partitions on HDD: 1 with 800GB and 1 with what's left
    how i do it?


    Code:
    diskpart
    list disk
    select disk #
    clean
    convert gpt
    
    create partition primary size=819200  --> (819.200 MB = 800 GB)
    format quick fs=ntfs label="Partition 1"
    assign
    
    create partition primary
    format quick fs=ntfs label="Partition 2"
    assign
    
    that way above?





    Thanks :D
     
  5. tnx

    tnx MDL Expert

    Sep 2, 2008
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    How big is this hard drive your going to use for storage ?
    Your wanting to make a partition of 800 GIG ?


    This is my thinking. I do not understand why folk partition up large drives into smaller ones just to use as storage. I would just have one partition\volume to the capacity of the drive.

    Having said that the bottom script looks ok to me.


    Once the OS is running and the storage drive is installed you could use Computer Management\ Disk Management.
     
  6. tnx

    tnx MDL Expert

    Sep 2, 2008
    1,622
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    Just wanted to say it myself...:rolleyes:
     
  7. lllFATAL1TY

    lllFATAL1TY MDL Member

    Dec 21, 2013
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    so, the command for set desired allocation size will be

    format fs=ntfs quick unit=4k
    for HDD
    format fs=ntfs quick unit=8k for SSD

    right ???

    ---

    about Advanced Format:

    my Caviar Black 1TB is FAEX model, it don't have Advanced Format, only Caviar Black FZEX model have

    so, i cannot use 4 KiB for allocation size? what size i have to use?



    Thanks


    *sorry for my poor english and noob questions
     
  8. Leolo

    Leolo MDL Member

    Jan 23, 2010
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    You can safely use a 4 KiB allocation size.

    Your HDD uses 512 byte physical sectors, and in theory you could also set the NTFS allocation size to 512 byte if you wanted.

    But there is a problem using 512 bytes, because such a small size will create A LOT of fragmentation, which degrades performance on HDD.

    So, even though you can use 512 bytes as NTFS allocation size, I recommend you to use 4096 bytes instead. The space wasted will be relatively small, and your drive will perform faster.
     
  9. acyuta

    acyuta MDL Expert

    Mar 8, 2010
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    I have multiple hard disks and though disks upto 2TB can be used as MBR, I just format all disks as GPT because of uniformity. My boot disk is SSD also formated as GPT and that contains only OS (Samsung Pro 256 GB). All disks of all capacities can be formated as GPT. GPT gives option to create more than 4 partitions on a single disk. GPT creates a 128 MB MSR partition at the beginning which is hardly anything these days.

    You do not need to disconnect your other hard disks as long as you are careful during the install process in selecting the disks. I have done many fresh installs and as a matter of course, do not disconnect. If I selected the right disk to install (though I did once mistakenly formated a secondary disk during install), I never had any problems in windows installing the Windows 8 boot partition on another drive in the system.
     
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  10. lllFATAL1TY

    lllFATAL1TY MDL Member

    Dec 21, 2013
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    thanks!

    i already installed Win8.1 on my SSD, but how i can see what allocation size i'm using currently?

    else, i don't now what is the command to format the disk with the desired allocation size, can u help me?

    format fs=ntfs quick unit=4k for HDD
    format fs=ntfs quick unit=8k for SSD

    this???

    thanks!

    i will use GPT for both disks

    btw, can i use GPT for my External HDD too?
     
  11. lllFATAL1TY

    lllFATAL1TY MDL Member

    Dec 21, 2013
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    #12 lllFATAL1TY, Jan 25, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 20, 2017
    (OP)
    thanks!



    i ran the command fsutil fsinfo ntfsinfo C: (SSD) and fsutil fsinfo ntfsinfo D: (HDD)


    Output:

    Code:
    Bytes Per Sector                :  512
    Bytes Per Physical Sector       :  512               
    Bytes Per Cluster               : 4096
    Bytes Per FileRecord Segment    : 1024
    Clusters Per FileRecord Segment :    0
    for both SSD and HDD, the same results above


    is everything ok? :confused:


    i ran CheckAlign.vbs too, and it shows "is aligned" for both disks



    Code:
    C:\Windows\system32>wmic DISKDRIVE get bytespersector, caption
    
    BytesPerSector  Caption
    512             WDC WD1002FAEX-00Y9A0 <<< [HDD] Caviar Black 1TB
    512             Samsung SSD 840 EVO 250GB <<< [SSD] 840 EVO 250GB
    512             WD Elements 1023 USB Device <<< [External HDD] WD Elements 500GB USB 2.0
     
  12. f33nix

    f33nix MDL Member

    Apr 4, 2012
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    #13 f33nix, Jan 27, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 20, 2017
    Everything is fine with your results... do not need to over complicate your install.


    On my SSD:

    Code:
    Bytes Per Sector  :               512
    Bytes Per Physical Sector :       512
    Bytes Per Cluster :               4096
    On my mechanical drive: (this means it uses 512e for emulating the sector size)
    I did do a lot of reasearch last year and count not find a drive that was 4096 Bytes native, though that may change in future as they will phase out drives that emulator this.

    Code:
    Bytes Per Sector  :               512
    Bytes Per Physical Sector :       4096
    Bytes Per Cluster :               4096