Someone has problem with 16bit programs ?

Discussion in 'Windows 10' started by cuteee, Aug 16, 2015.

  1. cuteee

    cuteee MDL Guru

    Oct 13, 2012
    2,917
    317
    90
    #1 cuteee, Aug 16, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2015
    I had problem with translate program. It didn't installed so I install it in Safe mode and it works.
    So we need always to use Safe mode for that ?

    BTW, It run faster on Win10 than it ran in Windows 8.1.
     
  2. Tito

    Tito Super Mod / Adviser
    Staff Member

    Nov 30, 2009
    17,370
    15,015
    340
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  3. murphy78

    murphy78 MDL DISM Enthusiast

    Nov 18, 2012
    6,787
    10,365
    210
    If it's truly a 16-bit program, it shouldn't.
    64-bit OS support 32-bit backward compatibility
    32-bit OS support 16-bit backward compatibility
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  4. cuteee

    cuteee MDL Guru

    Oct 13, 2012
    2,917
    317
    90
    #5 cuteee, Aug 16, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2015
    (OP)
    But I succeed to install 16bit program backward letters in 64-bit OS in Safe mode and it's work fine and fast.

    I had some problem with one 32 bit program in 64-bit OS.
     
  5. murphy78

    murphy78 MDL DISM Enthusiast

    Nov 18, 2012
    6,787
    10,365
    210
    Maybe it's trying to load a 16-bit driver or something that safe mode blocks? *shrug*
    I've never heard of 16-bit prog working in 64-bit OS without some sort of Virtualization, ever.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  6. cuteee

    cuteee MDL Guru

    Oct 13, 2012
    2,917
    317
    90
    So someone with 8GB memory can't run 16bit programs ? So it's better to stay with 3GB memory.
     
  7. murphy78

    murphy78 MDL DISM Enthusiast

    Nov 18, 2012
    6,787
    10,365
    210
    You can't even use 3gb of memory with 16bit programs.
    You can only use 64mb of memory because that's the limit of 16 bits.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  8. 3sidedcube

    3sidedcube MDL Member

    Oct 1, 2009
    115
    12
    10
    I was under the impression that windows spawned a wow session for running 16bit and 32bit app's ....

    but having read some more.
    The x64-based versions of the Microsoft Windows Server 2003 operating systems and Microsoft Windows XP Professional x64 Edition do not support 16-bit programs, 16-bit processes, or 16-bit components. However, these 64-bit versions of Windows may recognize some 16-bit installers and automatically convert the 16-bit installer to a 32-bit installer.

    In order to run a 16-bit program or a 32-bit program that uses 16-bit processes or 16-bit components, you must install the program on a 32-bit version of Windows. In order to run such a program, you can install a 32-bit version of Windows in a dual-boot configuration with the 64-bit version of Windows. Then, you can restart your computer to the 32-bit version of Windows and install the 16-bit program or 32-bit program that uses 16-bit processes or 16-bit components.

    but maybe that the designers of windows OS decided not to support it. Due to the fact that 16 bit will run on a 64bit system.

    and yes idle.exe was the program to stop the processor from running full throttle - had to use it on an old set up for running a Dos VM on latest hardware PC 2015.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  9. cuteee

    cuteee MDL Guru

    Oct 13, 2012
    2,917
    317
    90
    I remember, in the first version of Windows 8 - Windows developer preview, there was option in Control panel to run programs on 16bit.
    But it removed from the next version of Windows 8 - Windows consumer preview.
     
  10. T-S

    T-S MDL Guru

    Dec 14, 2012
    3,988
    1,313
    120
    AFAIK the 16 bit limit isn't the usual stupid MS choice but is a "physical" limitation of the AMD64 CPUs.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  11. Tito

    Tito Super Mod / Adviser
    Staff Member

    Nov 30, 2009
    17,370
    15,015
    340
    Its still there; you're forgetting one key-point - you need to use x86 Windows to get that option.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  12. T-S

    T-S MDL Guru

    Dec 14, 2012
    3,988
    1,313
    120
    #13 T-S, Aug 16, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2015
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  13. 3sidedcube

    3sidedcube MDL Member

    Oct 1, 2009
    115
    12
    10
    So you are saying that a 64bit cpu will not run 8bit or 16bit code but will run 32bit and 64bit code .

    It should run all of them regardless.

    I am sure I have run msdos 6.22 on a 64bit system and if memory serves that is 16bit OS.
    you should be able to run 16bit app but you will be limited to the 16bit threshold of memory allocation of whatever that is at maximum but other than that 16bit apps and prog's theoretically should work.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  14. cuteee

    cuteee MDL Guru

    Oct 13, 2012
    2,917
    317
    90
    The translate program is not 16bit, it's 32bit but very old - it compatible to Windows 95/98.
    It take time until I install this program on Windows 10.
     
  15. T-S

    T-S MDL Guru

    Dec 14, 2012
    3,988
    1,313
    120
    Read what wikipedia says

    If you run 16 bit programs the CPU switches in legacy mode, and in legacy mode looses the 64Bit extensions (so loses the ability to run the current x64 bit windows)

    What do you mean with that?

    You can't run the msdos itself other than in a sort of virtual environment. No matter if we are talking of win 32 or 64.

    You can run msdos commands. Many of them are still valid on CMD.

    So interpreted programs may run on 64bit windows just because CMD understand them.

    But you can't run proper 16 bit programs, say notepad.exe from win 3.11.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  16. 3sidedcube

    3sidedcube MDL Member

    Oct 1, 2009
    115
    12
    10

    Now I understand what you are saying now.
    if you are in a windows 64 environment then trying to run 16bit app's the OS will not run them.... sorted. for a few moments there I thought you meant that a 64 bit cpu will not run 16 bit programs. <which is totally untrue.

    So it is the OS limitation of windows and not the CPU then. basically M$ fault for not implementing a proper WoW session to run legacy programs when in a 64bit enviroment.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  17. T-S

    T-S MDL Guru

    Dec 14, 2012
    3,988
    1,313
    120
    Nope.

    The OS follows just the CPU limits.

    How do you think W64 can run a 16 bit programs if the CPU would switch in legacy mode loosing the ability to run the whole 64 bit OS?
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  18. 3sidedcube

    3sidedcube MDL Member

    Oct 1, 2009
    115
    12
    10
    It wouldn't. 16bit will never run in 64bit mode it's 16bit and that's the mode that it will only work at true.
    but it should work on a 64bit windows environment in a WoW session running at 16bit mode in a 64bit environment yes it will not be running native 64bit as the OS but will spawn a Windows on Windows session "WoW" in 16bit mode and the app will work.


    When you click an application to run if it's native 64bit and the os is 64bit then that app will run as 64bit. now if you where to run an application that is 32bit and the os is 64bit native then the OS spawns a WoW session to run that application in 32bit mode.
    so I was presuming that it would do the same for a 16bit application on a 64bit OS

    so I was right in saying the OS is at fault because M$ decided to take the 16bit components out of OS so it will not run a WoW session in 16bit mode.

    ok moving along :)
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  19. T-S

    T-S MDL Guru

    Dec 14, 2012
    3,988
    1,313
    120
    reasonable but wrong assumption.

    CPU is the culprit, NOT the OS.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...