There are various arguments and "arguments" for and against. Here are some, to kick start the debate on what is acceptable and what is detrimental to Humanity as a whole... First some of the facts and the context: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16690607 - have a look at the bottom of this article, to see how little, by comparison to others, the UK invests into its population's health, education, pensions - but one couldn't forget bad public transport etc. [TH="class: left, colspan: 4"] [h=2]US v Europe[/h] [/TH] [TH="class: left"] US [/TH] [TH="class: left"] UK [/TH] [TH="class: left"] GERMANY [/TH] [TH="class: left"] FRANCE [/TH] [TH="class: left, colspan: 4"] Health [/TH] Source: OECD (GDP figures from 2009) Private provision, some federal aid. Individuals to be compelled to get health insurance, with subsidies for poor. Cost:17.4% of GDP National Health Service funded by taxation. Healthcare free at point of delivery. Mostly publicly-owned hospitals. Cost:9.8% of GDP Mandatory health insurance covers most of population. Mix of private and public hospitals. Cost:11.6% of GDP Compulsory social health insurance, but most people have extra private cover. Mix of public and private hospitals. Cost:11.8% of GDP [h=3]Welfare[/h] Few welfare benefits. Unemployment pay extended to 99 weeks in recession but recipients must rely on charity after that. Cost:19.5% of GDP Wide range of welfare benefits for low and middle income families. Unemployment pay not time-limited. Cost:24.3% of GDP All-embracing welfare system. Full unemployment pay limited to 12 months, before falling sharply. Cost:27.6% of GDP Broad-based welfare state. Maximum two years unemployment benefit for under 50s. Cost:30.7% of GDP [h=3]Industry[/h] Privately-owned, with federal regulation. Some consider bank and General Motors bail-outs 'nationalisation'. Vast majority of state-owned enterprises privatised in 1980s. Three banks partially nationalised in 2008. Privately owned, except railways, post office and some banks. State-owned East German firms sold off or closed. Mixed economy. State retains stake in several of France's largest companies and pursues active industrial policy. The second part of the picture: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16545898 - the inequality trends in the last few decades, as Neo-cons/Neo-libs got stronger and stronger... [TH="class: left, colspan: 5"] [h=2]Growth in real after-tax income, 1979-2007[/h] [/TH] [TH="class: left"] Income Groups [/TH] [TH="class: left"] 0-20% [/TH] [TH="class: left"] 21-80% [/TH] [TH="class: left"] 81-99% [/TH] [TH="class: left"] Top 1% [/TH] Source: US Congressional Budget Office, Oct 2011 Income increase 18% 37% 65% Third step: the argument that this is "beneficial not only to the economy as a whole and the rich in particular but also to the poor" - questioned... In most US-oriented and heavily influenced world one sees similar story, radically different from "progressive taxation": http://www.lovemoney.com/news/family-finance/tax/11996/the-poorest-pay-the-most-tax Add to it falling real income, higher working hours, less holidays and "benefits", higher proportion of short-term contract jobs, less stability and so on and so forth... Now, usually, we are told that if we increase the rates for seriously rich, big business/corporations etc. - they will go some place else... In other words, we must be schtum and take it on the chin, be servile and be happy that we are seriously exploited and we get less, in terms of chances in life... The question: what is going to happen next? For instance, UK will cheat even more? Cheat both on most of her population, as well as her partners in EU, who have higher taxes and expenditure on education, health, childcare, pensions, public transport etc. etc. etc. How come Germans or Japanese, Swedes and Norwegians don't keep saying that they will leave if they have to pay more taxes? And where are they all gonna go? US? China? Gimme a break... Most corporations are nationally based for a reason! They are not going anywhere, even though they are doing business globally! You see, unless one is rich oneself [in which case it is understandable if one thinks that it is not in one's immediate, short-term interest to pay more taxes] and still one was convinced [by whomever "educated" one (indoctrination and brain-washing by propaganda comes to mind)] that one's interests lie with one's exploiters' interests - I would consider one numb-nuts! If one maintains that, then his/her position renders one déclassé (one degrades oneself). In well ordered countries with properly educated population, where innovation, good strategising, solid organisation, and efficiency rule (see Germany, Sweden and similar countries), there is no such fear-mongering "argument", whereby we should all be schtum and take whatever they are doing to us... (So, what the hell is going on in the US, UK and similar places?!?) On the other hand, if we know our class position and we start thinking on the issues strategically: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16511956 A view on what us "rich": http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15822595 So, what say you?!? Where you live - what's going on there?
schtum is right, Gorski.. are`nt we? i feel the basic issue is economical.. some countries are fortunate enough to have huge oil supplies, and a small population. like norway. hence; no problem to fund health care, unemployment, or whatever..enter a very happy people.. the less fortunate countries have got a slight problem. having no such source of income, they tend to spend more than they earn..if i get myself a debt of a years earnings, i have got a real problem.. most of the `civilized`countries have placed themselves in exactly that position, over the last 30 years.. now that it dawns on them, that they might go broke, they panick, and bend over for companies, that as you said are not going anywhere.. schtum..........
"(So, what the hell is going on in the US, UK and similar places?!?)" Looks like this should be a good debate. I would like to add pensions to the debate in this way. Currently in the U.S. hard working U.S. workers who have payed into a corporate pension fund are not necessarily guaranteed that come time of retirement that the fund will be solvent and at a return that is equal to the current cost of living. Making matters worse U.S.corporations have learned how to escape their obligations to their pensioners by filing bankruptcy. They know that the branch of the U.S. government that is responsible for the guarantees of the funds will make them available. Thus putting the burden on the U.S. taxpayer. The phrase "generational theft" seems to be tossed around frequently in U.S. political debates but why is it that in the end from one generation to the next a family or clan that are of working class see little or no improvement from one generation to the next? Where the richest end up paying the lowest taxes and can safely transfer wealth from one generation to the next without penalty
pensions are a case in point, allright.. so long as you `ve got more people paying than you`ve got people living off them, you`re allright. of course you have got all this money they are paying, and all the time in the world to invest it, profitably.. but if you fail to do that. the time will come that people are drawing more, than the working guys are paying..
http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/68031/branko-milanovic/inequality-and-its-discontents - some context from a guy who's life's work is on the topic, Branko Milanovic is a leading expert on the subject https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...&sig=AHIEtbS5-VC5DbPGFqOCJtqFZ_X1NHJCCQ&pli=1 - a more wholesome doc on the subject, from the leading expert (even if it is a little dry...) But when you see titles like this... EXTRAS Should the whole world be composed of gated communities http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMsirg7Z0bU - a contribution that should enlighten: Global Income Inequality, The Consequences of Inequality and Wealth Distribution He is not exactly an exciting speaker, so beware - be prepared for dry and sober academic world...
These are the interesting points to make, in order to compare worldwide... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gini_coefficient Let's take just one example, Brazil, for starters... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_issues_in_Brazil http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/03/to-beat-back-poverty-pay-the-poor/ http://www.worldwide-tax.com/brazil/brazil_taxes.asp Compare it with other countries, especially the Scandinavian ones: http://www.worldwide-tax.com/ When some redistribution happens one can see many more happy faces, if the state starts doing its job: http://worldpress.org/Americas/3787.cfm
Considering that a number of European countries robbed half the world to get where they are, I have no pity to see them fall. Just blatant waste and mismanagement.
Yes sir , if you look at the amount of wealth stolen by Europeans during that period especially the Spanish then I find it ridiculous that they have financial issues now.
It's not ridiculous. It's stupid and parasitical. Those guys plundered. Some other countries instituted commerce and trade... Less violence but results were different in a variety of ways. To an extent, colonialism continues by other means - financially... Be that as it may, the Greeks have to primarily blame themselves. As do many other indebted countries... Not to say that lenders are "white"... But my question is (well, one of them, anyhow): which model do the poor countries follow and just how "great" is it for them to follow it?!?
i would be the last to justify colonialism, gorski.. but what our esteemed bankers are doing today is of a different order..they do their mismanagement trick, and they get rewarded with a bonus in excess of a years salary..while ordinary people in greece will fail to make ends meet for the next couple of years,, and then there is no model to follow, models fill no stomachs,, like berthold brecht said, erst kommt das fressen, dann kommt die moral..
Indeed, when all our essential needs are met, when we feel recognised, then we can recognise others etc. In Brazil and similar places that is not the case by any stretch of imagination but still - not much movement...
`The lie is the root cause of it all. Broken treaties and promises that were only intended to distract while your pockets were being picked only on a grand scale. I look at those in history during the !4400-1800 and how the influence peddlers of the time paved a way for the worst perpetrators of the time to be recognized as Heroes deserving honorable recognition. The truth is being exposed daily and the Lord and surf relationship will be forever changed
The big question for me is at what time did the big over reach become common place and justified? When peoples became conquered and divided to the point that their collective voice became muted by their oppressors they began in their isolation to look for worthy allies to help with their defense. Developing Inner strength, fortified with the strength and wisdom of their ancestors, unveiled a way of life in which one could survive until some future awakening of the whole. The trap that was sprung by capitalism and creature comforts began a slow decline towards a point of no return some may say. The mere acceptance of that premise guarantees a permanent state of decline where the population increases and natural resources are diminished so their value on global markets increases. We know where that leads and who will benefit from that arrangement. If you are one who accepts this arrangement then you are truly part of the problem and contribute nothing to the solution. If the soldiers refused to take up arms all war would be over, which incidently are fought by people whose incomes are close to poverty. The solution is in a global conversation where we by the WWW or neighbor to neighbor turn towards solutions that are for the good of all and elect leaders that embrace that idea. It is also necessary that we only allow corporations to prevail which embrace that idea. We must begin to govern, without fail, with a forward gaze to the next 7 generations. These ideas are not new and have been in practice for over 1,000 years by my nation. If you are looking for a model just google "Iroquois Nation" or "The Great Peace"
Belatedly, on International Women's day... http://www.asafeworldforwomen.org/w...-justice-on-brazils-march-of-the-daisies.html Women demand social justice on Brazil's March of the Daisies At least 50,000 Brazilian rural workers called for increased social justice, especially for women, from President Dilma Rousseff's government as they marched through Brasilia's streets on Wednesday. "Brazil is a very socially unequal country and when it comes to women, that inequality is even bigger," said Carmen Foro, who coordinated this year's annual protest march. The crowd of women -- 70,000 according to organizers and 50,000 according to police -- wore straw hats and brandished purple banners while they marched down the capital city's main thoroughfare. "We have come to deliver the Brazilian rural workers' demands to President Dilma. We fight for water, for healthy food, for food security, for a non-sexist education, for access to healthcare and an end to domestic violence," said a union manager. For the first time, the yearly protest is addressing a female president in Brazil and Rousseff was expected to join the march at the end of the day in a city park. "We are anxiously awaiting her arrival, because since she is a women, she will understand our pain. Even if she is not in our social class. Dilma Rousseff was a political prisoner and a victim of discrimination," said 71-year-old Ivanize Magalhaes, who traveled for three days to join the protest. Each year the march brings thousands of rural workers from all over Brazil to Brasilia. The protest movement is a tribute to Margarida Alves, a union leader who was assassinated in 1983 while fighting for social justice. Women Use Flower Power by Nelza Oliveira (2007) Margarida Alves Around 50,000 rural women workers from across Brazil came together for Marcha das Margaridas (March of the Daisies) in the capital, Brasília, recently. They marched to draw the attention of the federal government towards the necessities and concerns, of the women, such as welfare rights, food security and sexist violence. This mass mobilization of rural women workers is held in honor of Margarida Alves, rural woman worker and unionist leader. She was murdered in 1983, in Paraíba in the northeast of the country, under the orders of landowners. Margarida, whose name means 'daisy' in Portuguese, was well known in the region for motivating rural workers to understand their rights and fight against injustice. "This march began many years ago and the movement has blossomed in each Margarida's heart. We will struggle until the end for equality of rights and opportunities; and against poverty, hunger and sexist violence," said Carmen Foro, National Coordinator, National Confederation of Agriculture Workers (CONTAG), the largest peasant organization in Brazil. Foro is also Vice-President of the Unique Workers' Center (CUT). Margarida Maria Alves Margarida Maria Alves was born in Alagoa Grande in the state of Paraiba, Brazil. From a rural area, she battled for workers' and women's rights. In 1973, she was elected the first woman president of Alagoa Grande trade union and served in this position for ten years. During this period, she took owners of sugar factories and big landholders to court over labor rights , fighting for such things as an eight-hour workday and legal vacations. At that time, in the 1980s, a National Agrarian Reform Plan was created, and violence in the countryside increased. In this context, a masked gunman murdered Alves on August 12, 1983, in front of her house, in the presence of her husband and children. The assailant escaped, and the crime remains unpunished. Alves has been nationally recognized as a symbol in the struggle for agrarian reform and women's rights. A human rights foundation has been named for her, and her motto is well known: “Better to die fighting than starving.”
Look at this: UK goes down to the US level and below... BEWARE!!! http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/oct/15/graph-cameron-wants-shrink-state You have been warned! Now, elect the same arsehole...
there should be one country in this world.all people should be united.To make giant rails acroos world and to make giant roads across world that even runs on oceans to reduce shipping cost.