What do you think about Electric Cars?

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by Katzenfreund, Aug 24, 2017.

?

Will your next car be electric?

  1. My next car will be electric

  2. I’ll wait several years for prices to drop

  3. I’m not convinced by them, I’ll buy conventional

  4. I am undecided, far more info is required

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
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    Not if you change batteries or if you invent very fast recharging ones...
     
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  2. MrMagic

    MrMagic MDL Guru

    Feb 13, 2012
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    We already have very fast recharging batteries, it's called Petrol
     
  3. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
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    Yeah, let's cement ourselves, that's the spirit...
     
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  4. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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  5. JFKI

    JFKI MDL Expert

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    #25 JFKI, Sep 9, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2017
    It's not just people. Imagine a refrigerated tractor trailer stuck in the middle of the Mohave sitting at a charging station when it is loaded with steaks.
    That's if it's lucky and makes it to a charging station.

    Edit to add: I suppose it wouldn't be a total loss, but can you imagine paying $26.00 a serving for beef jerky? I can't.
     
  6. MrMagic

    MrMagic MDL Guru

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    I'm expecting instead of queues of cars that take approx 3-4 mins to fill up and move on, queues of cars that take 4+ hours each to charge before they can move on, you get to a charge station with 3 people in front of you in the queue and not enough power to get to the next (likely just as full) charge point/station... then what?

    It's a completely retarded idea and I can't believe the UK is stopping production and sales of combustion engine vehicles so soon, 2040 isn't that far away and tbh I have serious doubts batteries will be anywhere near good enough to replace normal engines by then
     
  7. JFKI

    JFKI MDL Expert

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    Lots and lots of Beef Jerky ? :dunno:

    If it was milk we could hire Gorski to clean up the mess afterwards, and it would be job security for him. :p
     
  8. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    ...and that's why you are not heads of research and development... :D
     
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  9. MrMagic

    MrMagic MDL Guru

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    If electric vehicle charge stations were actually battery replacement stations, and the batteries lasted 500 miles each, then maybe, but not charge stations, no-one wants to sit around charging their car

    I'd be OK with pulling up and switching batteries over which would take approx the same time as filling with petrol, but not charging
     
  10. JFKI

    JFKI MDL Expert

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    I can see the "counterfeit battery" headlines now.
     
  11. MrMagic

    MrMagic MDL Guru

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    eBay and Amazon charging stations popping up all over the country :D
     
  12. JFKI

    JFKI MDL Expert

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    OK Genius, Do the math.
    The legal limit without permits is 36288 kilograms (kg) here in the US.
    Figure out the batteries needed to move that load say 1000 kilometers.
    Don't forget to figure in the weight of the batteries themselves.
    Then figure out how long to recharge those batteries.
     
  13. JFKI

    JFKI MDL Expert

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  14. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

    Jul 26, 2012
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    @JFKI: Wouldn't the batteries be placed in the Tractor?

    Not the trailer. And aren't the last two axles the ones that are weighed?

    I'm not saying that it's doable because there are so many other problems that have to be overcome.
    Regenerative braking could be incorporated in both the tractor and trailer, so that every bit of energy spent stopping could be reclaimed and stored in the battery system.

    It will take a complete redesign of the tractor/trailer, but in my mind it would be worth it.

    Just some thoughts from an old design engineer. :)
     
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  15. JFKI

    JFKI MDL Expert

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    For compatibility (tractors being able to swap trailers) they should, but I left the answer to that open.

    The load is actually split between the rear tandems of the tractor and the trailers tandems for a spread of the load (approximately 75000 lbs - standard tractors weigh approximately 5-7,000 lbs) across 16 tires. (4 tires per axle, 4 axles.. Tolls are fun. NOT!) The front axle of the tractor takes care of the weight of the engine, transmission, fuel tanks, etc. which is the last 2 wheels which is why they are called "18 wheelers".

    That would be an interesting design, but another reason for the tractor/trailer design is so they can sharply turn into the loading docks while backing up giving the driver much more control and needing a whole lot less space at the loading dock.
    Glad you mentioned braking, that currently would be another major draw from the battery idea since currently the standard is air brakes which needs at least 90 psi, but usually run at 120 psi. (I'm a bit fuzzy, been too long, but the maxi's {Emergency Brake/Spring Brake} kick on when it drops below either 60 or 80 psi) They don't actually use "a lot of air" but keeping the pressures up takes an unbelievable amount of power. If you want to retain the ability to swap with current trailers that system is a "must keep".

    I have seen regenerative braking before on cranes (Demag in particular), but those were used to assist the air brakes, not actually bring it to a stop, and in my opinion more of a pain to keep in working order than it was worth (That needed a permit to go anywhere, 124,000 lb empty weight).
    I suppose a redesign is not out of the question. :dunno:
     
  16. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

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  17. JFKI

    JFKI MDL Expert

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    @mj
    Regenerative braking.
    Currently they also have what is known as a "jake brake" originally designed and manufactured by a company called "Jacobs".
    Simplified, it takes oil pressure to open the valves in a diesel engine. There is a solenoid in the oil circuit which when energized dumps that oil back into the crankcase thereby relieving the pressure needed to open the valves. There is a switch on the dash to turn this system on, and another, a micro-switch, wired in series and attached to the throttle pedal which completes the circuit when you take your foot off the throttle. What this does when activated is it turns the engine into a huge air compressor when you let off the throttle.
    This is used to slow the tractor trailer when, for example, going down a grade. Some communities have put up roadsigns stating that jake brakes, engine brakes, etc. are forbidden on certain stretches of road.
    This is because when you effectively turn an engine into an air compressor it tends to be really loud.

    My point is that this compressed air is NOT regenerated.

    This is what that sounds like as the trucker is downshifting:
     
  18. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

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    @JFKI: I know what a "Jake" brake is. From first hand experience. I lived along Meeker Ave, right below the Brooklyn - Queens expressway.
    They are noisy and annoying.

    This is different.

    What I'm saying to you is that new technology is coming out every day. Eventually, somebody will figure out a way to make it work.
     
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  19. JFKI

    JFKI MDL Expert

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    #39 JFKI, Sep 10, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2017
    This is old technology used in a new way.

    I had a bad experience with an accumulator almost 3 decades ago.
    ( Counts on fingers... :eek: Damn, it was 3 decades ago last year. )
    That was on what was called a foamseal machine.
    I just started to disassemble it to rebuild it, had a plug just about out and at the last second realized that the accumulator was still charged.
    It was too late as I watched that resin headed for my face, it was only an inch or two away when I finally got my eyes closed.
    About 3 hours and many gallons of saline solution at the hospital I finally got them open again.
    I was lucky though, it was the resin side and not the isocyanide side which I caught in the face.
    Been leary of them ever since...

    Just how much energy (in tens of thousands of PSI) is being stored in the ones they are putting under these trucks ?
    My mishap was at *only* 100 PSI.
     
  20. Joe C

    Joe C MDL Guru

    Jan 12, 2012
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    There are different hybrid cars already on the roads today...
    Hybrid electric vehicles--HEVs--combine a gasoline-powered combustion engine with an electric motor to offer a more environmentally-friendly driving experiences. Hybrid cars are classified according to the type of drivetrain or powertrain they feature, which determines how the engine and the motor work together to power the car. Parallel hybrids and series hybrids represent opposite ends of the spectrum and there are several key differences between these two types of hybrid drivetrains.

    Features
    While both parallel and series hybrids feature a gasoline engine, electric motor, rechargeable battery, inverter and transmission, they are configured in uniquely different ways. According to Hybrid Center, the engine in a series hybrid is smaller than a parallel hybrid while the electric motor and battery are larger. Series hybrids feature a separate generator which is connected to the engine. In a parallel hybrid, the electric motor acts as a generator. In a series hybrid, the gasoline engine is not coupled directly to the wheels, while it is in a parallel hybrid.

    Parallel Hybrid Propulsion
    In a parallel hybrid, both the electric motor and the combustion engine work together to power the vehicle. According to the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE), the gasoline engine and the electric motor are both connected to the transmission. When fuel travels to the engine or when the electric motor is turned on, the power that is generated propels the car. A controller in the transmission determines when to operate the electric motor and when to switch to the gasoline engine.

    Series Hybrid Propulsion
    In a series hybrid, the electric motor is solely responsible for turning the vehicle's wheels. According to Hybrid Center, the electric motor is charged by the battery pack or by the generator, which is powered by the gasoline engine. The gasoline engine in a series hybrid is not coupled to the wheels and does not directly power the car. A controller in the transmission determines how much power is needed to propel the vehicle and whether to pull it from the battery or the generator.

    Regenerative Braking
    Both parallel and series hybrids feature a regenerative braking system, which both slows the car and recharges the battery. In a regenerative braking system, the electric motor helps to slow the car down as you press the brake, according to the U.S. Department of Energy. The energy that is released from the wheels turns the electric motor, which acts as a generator and sends electricity back to the battery.

    Efficiency
    The efficiency of parallel and series hybrids varies according to the conditions under which they're driven. According to Hybrid Center, the composition of parallel hybrids makes them more efficient for highway driving at higher, more constant speeds. Conversely, series hybrids are more efficient for driving in the city because their drivetrain structure reduces the strain on the engine in stop-and-go driving situations.
     
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