What do you think about Electric Cars?

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by Katzenfreund, Aug 24, 2017.

?

Will your next car be electric?

  1. My next car will be electric

  2. I’ll wait several years for prices to drop

  3. I’m not convinced by them, I’ll buy conventional

  4. I am undecided, far more info is required

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    Now, this is what I want to see, fossil fuel free food production, no nasties on our food!!!

    [​IMG]

    Agricultural Robots, Drones, and AI: 2020-2040: Technologies, Markets, and Players
    The future of farming; ultra precision farming; autonomous farming; artificial intelligence; machine vision; mobile robots; autonomous tractors.
     
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  2. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    #1202 gorski, Jul 4, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2020
    https://insideevs.com/features/431777/video-evs-cleaner-gas-cars/

    Are Electric Cars Actually Greener Than Gas Cars?

    Of course they are.

    Many countries and local governments are now promoting electric vehicles as a key part of their decarbonization strategy, but are they right? Is battery power really more environmentally friendly than the internal combustion engine? Those questions are explained with a new ThEVox Network video.

    Comparing the environmental footprint of any car can be tricky, because different companies have different suppliers, production processes, not to mention philosophies around supporting a low carbon economy. This is why ThEVox Network enlisted the International Council on Clean Transportation to help answer this one. The ICCT is a non-profit organization that was responsible for exposing Dieselgate to the world, so it’s safe to say that they know their onions when it comes to calculating emissions.

    A recent ICCT study discovered that a typical electric car, using average European electricity, is almost 30% cleaner over its lifecycle, compared to even the most efficient internal combustion engine vehicle. In markets with very low-carbon electricity, such as Norway or France, electric vehicles are said to be more than 60% cleaner.

    To understand more, the video explains what is known as a vehicle’s Life Cycle Assessment, which is split into four stages. Which ones? Press play and watch the video to find out:



    BTW...

    They forgot to mention that battery components are changing away from those precious metals mined by kids in war-torn countries etc. etc. When silicon ones take over - watch out!!!
     
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  3. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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  4. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    Stay tuned...



    Carbon...



    A battery that IS the (shell of) car or an airplane...
     
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  5. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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  6. john23

    john23 MDL Novice

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    The price factor was always the biggest barrier for electric cars. However, without Elon Musk, it wouldn't have been the same. His 'crazy' tactics changed the world for sure. Now everyone hopes that he will come up with a dry cell battery technology that eliminates the chances of fire accidents. If the company manages to invent such a technology then, smartphone companies will be the early adopters for it. The pattern is very clear. All these smart techs, electric, electronic things are very much interconnected. Now there is no going back with all these technological things regardless of the fact that people realize it or not, it has become an essential part of the life.
     
  7. case-sensitive

    case-sensitive MDL Expert

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    Dear consumers / customers :)

    >it has become an essential part of the life.
    >everyone hopes

    I dissagree . I dont need or want an electric car or an NSA dildophone .


    >Now there is no going back with all these technological things regardless of the fact that people realize it or not

    The technology is one thing and the commercial products another .



    This whole thread / subject is tainted with capitalist advertisments . With rich dekadent peoples fantasys ...... especialy about the future .



    Who needs an electric car ? Who can afford one ?
     
  8. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    #1208 gorski, Jul 16, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2020
    Ever more people can afford it and economies of scale plus gov action will make sure we take the right turn.

    Tech and science can not be stopped. They are advancing and we need considerably less pollution for our kids and their kids! Strategically, this is necessary. All else is Luddite nonsense, I'm afraid...

    And costs are going down on all counts, tech is becoming better and cheaper to make, infrastructure is improving, legislation is advancing etc. etc.

    I want one, everyone I know wants one, and we know initially EVs cost more - but long term they are already cheaper!

    The bit about these technologies being open to misuse is a fair one, though! We better watch out and place the adequate controls, check and balances into the system or else...
     
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  9. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    Actually, it's diesel ships/cruisers but yes... huge problems to solve...
     
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  10. case-sensitive

    case-sensitive MDL Expert

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    #1210 case-sensitive, Jul 17, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2020
    @ universe ---- >

    Luddites werent morons . They didnt object to technology they objected to capitalists replacing them with machines that made them unemployed . < ------ Thats ' the working class struggle ' again ...... a continual war against the masses ......... in a world where the amount of poor people gets more and more every day and capital ( = OUR money ) is concentrated more and more in the hands of less and less people .

    >Who needs an electric car ? Who can afford one ?

    Theres a difference between want and need ? ...... and greed :) ........ ' Mommy mommy ME ME ME flashy flashy , blinky blinky , glitzy glitzy ' ........ = The ' Morals and ethics ' that got us into the position that WE are in now = The biosphere is dying ....... has been murdered by greed and ignorance ....... and we only have a theoretical chance of surviveing ...... unless there is a major technological advance ...... That practicaly and theoreticly doesnt exist . Example ...... the biosphere is poisoned with pieces of plastic wich get smaller and smaller every day ....... and we have no practical or theoretical way of stopping that ....... and / or cleaning it up ....... and at the same time we're poluting the planet with more and more each day .

    And ...... can anyone realy afford one ( better said can the planet afford them ) ? In capitalist fantasy theory everyone could have an electric vehicle ...... but :) ...... Ok they're suposed to be less dangerous to the biosphere ...... but they are not climate neutral . Making them costs energy and resources and we havent got the electrical capacity to charge them / fullfill the capitalist fantasy sales . What we need is less vehicles ...... less egoists that ' need ' one and drive around with one person in ' their ' ecar .

    >Problems

    Are there to be solved ...... and are what drives evil-ution . And one of the main lessons is ...... if you / we dont solve our problems they get worse untill we do . We saw what corona did = people got an undenyable concrete threat in front of them and because of that started to wake up ...... but now its been taken over by capitalist interests ........ and governments trying to get back to ' normal ' = We didnt learn from it = It will happen again at least untill we do learn from it . ( ' It ' being problems caused and worsened by capitalist / government interests ...... NOT just / only corona ) .

    > it's diesel ships/cruisers ...... / ...... planes

    Nope . The problem is ...... YOU :) ....... ( = Humanity :) ) ...... you using those things ....... in an unnesecary and harmfull way ....... AND :) ...... Everyone has to give something if they can ...... do something to at least try to save the biosphere = Instead of trying to blame it on some technologys ....... and people that use them = Other people have to give / change / sacrifice but i dont :) ....... Remember kennedy ? ' Do not ask what your country ( planet ) can do for you ask what you can do for your country ( planet ) ' .

    >I can afford it

    = LOL ........ thats ego crap again ......... = Maybe some people can afford it financialy ...... ( in the short term ) ...... but can the biosphere afford it ? Example ........ ' Rodney rich pig ' has a big fat pickup truck ...... a stately home on wheels ...... that he bought with ' his ' money ........ that eats loads of fuel ...... and polutes the biosphere ......... He could afford it but can the planet ? ...... Can YOU / WE :) ........
     
  11. case-sensitive

    case-sensitive MDL Expert

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    #1211 case-sensitive, Jul 17, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2020
    > I like them because they are really good for environment

    Nope . They're suposed to be less dangerous / damaging . Maybe they poison the biosphere less but poison is poison . Theres a difference between less harmfull and more healthy . Example ...... Cyanide is more dangerous / poisonous that strychnin but is strychnin more healthy ?
     
  12. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    #1212 gorski, Jul 18, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2020
    No, sorry, you just have to educate yourself a bit more on the subject. I know it's easier to just be cynical but it's also wrong! Even a simple search on the net could quickly give you loads of relevant info on the subject...

    For instance: https://www.energysage.com/electric-vehicles/advantages-of-evs/evs-environmental-impact/

    Or: https://blog.ucsusa.org/rachael-nealer/gasoline-vs-electric-global-warming-emissions-953

    EVs simply are not only less poisonous to the environment but have an even greater capacity to be ever more "less poisonous", as we move over to renewable sources of energy and new materials and technologies.

    I can't repeat all the things which are already said in this thread - if you are interested, feel free to read through it...
     
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  13. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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  14. Bat.1

    Bat.1 MDL Expert

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    #1214 Bat.1, Jul 24, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2020
    Like President Trump I also believe that President Duterte was Chosen By God to lead the Philippines through these troubling times.
    [​IMG]

    I am however against his push to electrify Jeepney and Trisikads at such a rapid pace. There are areas in Manila and other larger Cities that the noise and pollution may justify going with an all electric fleet, but the economy won't in most parts of The Islands. Except for possibly Mail Order Brides, Nothing says The Philippines like a traditional smoke belching Jeepney or a Trisikad with a aftermarket (LOUD) exhaust to strain as much power as possible out the tiny engine.

    Forcing the Independent Owners and Operators out of Business .doesn't make sense in an economy that barely survives on just how hard independent small business owners are willing to work. The large Corporations that can afford the costs of electric vehicles really don't give a damn if a Driver that was making $25.00 US a Day can't survive on $5.00 US a Day, they'll just find someone else who'll work for that.

    NOTE: I did look at cost per Kilo comparisons and it's possible to save approx 1 PHP per 50 Kilometers so there is a savings there for someone who may have the finances to afford to upgrade on their own. Personally I'll stick with Public Transport when I'm there. Dem people drive worse dan Mericans
     
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  15. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    https://electrek.co/2020/07/30/kandi-cheapest-electric-cars-us/

    Kandi K27
    The Kandi K27 is a small compact vehicle with only a 17.69 kWh battery pack — limiting it to a range of an optimistic 100 miles.

    But it starts at just $20,499, and after the federal tax credit, it goes down to $12,999.

    In some states, the small electric car will cost around $10,000 after EV incentives.

    Here are some pictures of the Kandi K27:
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    Kandi K23
    The K23 is a bigger brother to K27. It would still qualify as a compact vehicle in the US, but it is significantly bigger than the K27 and features a much larger 41.4 kWh battery pack, which should enable up to 180 miles of range.

    It starts at $29,999, but with the EV incentives, the price should come down to closer to $20,000 in some key markets. That’s the same price as the 110-mile range Mini SE which we just reviewed.

    Here are some pictures of the Kandi K23:

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    Electrek’s take
    Here they come. China made EVs are going to be hypercompetitive in the low end market soon in Europe and the US. These Kandi cars don’t look amazing but if they can be had for the price of gasoline alone, they could be competitive, especially in cities and campus/fleet type of situations.

    Quality and safety will be big question marks here as China has a different set of safety standards. Marketing and design will also play a key role here to determine if these are just electric Yugos.

    It will also be interesting to see if the US Government continues to outlay $7500/ea for these in addition to state incentives. That is approaching half the total price of these vehicles while domestic players like GM and Tesla have to sell at full price.
     
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  16. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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  17. case-sensitive

    case-sensitive MDL Expert

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    Thanks for the commercial adverts :) ...... only 10000 $ each minimum !!! ....... i shall buy 3 :) ........ it would be interesting to record such capitalist adverts and later look back and see what actualy happened . The performance , costs and biosphere footprint .

    QuestionS ---- > How many americans could / would fit in such a mini vehicle , a little bigger than a cornflakes packet ? ...... and :) ...... IF someone managed to physicaly crush an average american into one ........ could it tow a 30 foot container to carry the average americans ego ?
     
  18. MrG

    MrG MDL Expert

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    #1218 MrG, Aug 4, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2020
  19. ma.prezentalok

    ma.prezentalok MDL Junior Member

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    Oh I love Tesla for starting this revolution. Still not as mature as ICE probably, but max torque (≥450Nm) being available at 0 rpm well... I'd love to try it :D
     
  20. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    @MrG - you haven't really read any of these myth-debunking links posted in this thread alone, have you?

    Well, may I warmly refer you to them...

    CS - likewise, most journeys are short, commuting and even if the diesel particles alone were to vanish - that would be quite something. But the EVs nowadays are even better and they are getting better, so stop trolling for no reason, with no argument to be seen....

    If you have an actual argument, backed up by independent analysts etc. - let's see it... We all want to inform ourselves properly, that much goes without saying!
     
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