Why is it preferable to use the last one Win ISO rather than to update Windows ?

Discussion in 'Windows 8' started by Soulfate, Apr 20, 2015.

  1. Soulfate

    Soulfate MDL Member

    Feb 14, 2011
    185
    49
    10
    #1 Soulfate, Apr 20, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2015
    Hi!
    I use sysprep, dism and a virtual machine to make my own customized Windows editions (with apps, modifications, tweaks, drivers and other things integrated, etc.).

    When an update is available, like 8.1 Update for Windows 8 or the Update 1 for Windows 8.1, I use to update my virtual machine with Windows Update (via PowerShell), clean it ("dism /cleanup-image" and "cleamgr" commands and some manual cleanings) and make a new WIM (or ESD) from this virtual image. I use the same process to update my Windows 10 Technical Preview virtual image.

    But all of you write that it is better to clean install the last updated Windows image (WIM) rather than update an older (but clean) Windows image.

    It is not practical because I have to make again my modifications, what takes me some time.
    So, why (technically) do you recommend to clean install an updated Windows Image rather than update an already deployed Windows image? Problems that could be caused by an update can be easily fixed to approach a clean and updated WIM? Does it concern a clean (virtual) Windows image that is only used to be sysprepared and is not used for a daily use (as main OS, for example)?

    Thank you! Much love :buddyjesus:
     
  2. Myrrh

    Myrrh MDL Expert

    Nov 26, 2008
    1,401
    500
    60
    My opinion: one method = 6, the other = 1/2 dozen.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  3. Ace2

    Ace2 MDL Senior Member

    Oct 10, 2014
    338
    150
    10
    Why is it preferable to use the last one Win ISO rather than to update Windows ?

    To limit leftover junk.;)
     
  4. T-S

    T-S MDL Guru

    Dec 14, 2012
    3,988
    1,316
    120
    The ISO way is obviuosly better, it's faster and if something goes wrong you don't have to redonload 3Gigs of data

    And fresh installs to have a solid system are mostly thing of the past.

    Better to avoid the upgrade path when there's a generational leap, like win98-->XP or XP--> Vista

    Is not the case of the upgrade from win 8.1 to win 10. They are, more or less, Vista 3.0 and Vista 4.0
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  5. Taliseian

    Taliseian MDL Junior Member

    Oct 13, 2013
    93
    12
    0
    Personal preference is to do clean installs over upgrades - especially when going from larger jumps (full Service Packs and complete OS upgrades).

    My SOP for years (started doing this way back during my active MS Beta Testing for Win95) was to create a clean install of the OS - no drivers, no apps, just an activated OS with all current updates - then use a program like Norton Ghost or Acronis to make an image of my install partition/drive, and then when I needed to for Beta Testing purposes or whenever I felt like it was to back up a few directories (these days it's only Docs, iTunes, downloads and game saves) and restore a clean image.

    I can go from a dirty system to a fully updated, latest drivers, common apps (thanks to programs like Ninite and PatchMyPc) in less than 30min.


    T
     
  6. T-S

    T-S MDL Guru

    Dec 14, 2012
    3,988
    1,316
    120

    The point is that something is changed during the last 20 years.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  7. Soulfate

    Soulfate MDL Member

    Feb 14, 2011
    185
    49
    10
    #7 Soulfate, Apr 20, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2015
    (OP)
    I understand that if I'm working on a Windows 8.1 (or newer) image and I update it with a "big" update pack (managed with Virtual Box and a VHD drive that I can modify on my host system for finalization and capture process), I've just to clean some junk files and, in fact, the new updated home-made WIM is as stable and clean as an MS updated WIM? (I've noticed that even MS official WIMs are not really clean...)

    So, no need to reset the virtual machine and format the virtual disk to have a clean updated WIM? "Normal" Windows updates and a little clean-up will provide a well up-to-date system? A perfectionnist user would be satisfied by this method and would notice no difference?

    I'm not surprised if a home-made and updated WIM is as clean as an official MS WIM release. MS provides sufficient tools to do these admin maintenance tasks and its system has been well optimized for deployment. For example, I update the latest Windows 8.1 image with all latest updates, I clean this image, I manually clean its S-1-5-21-* related contents, some temp and log files and voilà, I've a very clean WIM (and even lighter than the official release). It's a personal consideration and feeling, but I needed your feedbacks about this.

    It's important that there is no objective case that an official updated WIM is better than a home-made updated WIM.
     
  8. Michel

    Michel MDL Expert

    Jul 29, 2009
    1,711
    124
    60
    Microsoft needs to change that, linux and macos dont have junkfiles either. Why on earth after windows update those files sits there ? why after i remove a application it sits in registery and so on.
     
  9. Skaendo

    Skaendo MDL Addicted

    Sep 23, 2014
    888
    524
    30
    #9 Skaendo, Apr 20, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2015
    I can tell you from my experience with Windows 7 since I have been using the simplix updater and updating my iso that my install footprint is significantly smaller with a clean install. 13.1GB currently for a vanilla clean install. Which in turn (however slightly) keeps my performance in check since I run on older hardware.

    I don't generally completely reinstall every month when a new update pack comes out. I do a lot of testing, sporadically, so I might reinstall twice a week or twice a year, it all depends. I know that a better option would be to run a VM, and I have just began doing that so my habits might change.

    My Linux machines I will completely reinstall when a updated release comes out, and Slackware which I run doesn't really come out too often, November 07, 2013 was the last release (14.1). Since then I have been running -current which is "rolling" so theoretically I never have to reinstall. But that's a whole different world from Windows.

    All in all I think that it is better to install clean every so often because A LOT OF JUNK gets left behind in Windows, leftover program folders, registry entries, unneeded system files etc. But a general rule of thumb I follow is that I keep a 50GB partition for my Windows install and the remaining HDD partitioned for "My Files". YMMV. Then all I need to do is keep my bookmarks backed up, and I can reinstall everyday if I wanted to, or if a serious crash happens all my files are safe and recoverable. I do this on both Windows and Linux machines.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  10. Soulfate

    Soulfate MDL Member

    Feb 14, 2011
    185
    49
    10
    #10 Soulfate, Apr 21, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 20, 2017
    (OP)
    When you talk about "left over junk files", if you mean all files that are into the "WinSxS" system folder, you should know that some commands will reduce the size of Windows components and make the WinSxS folder as fresh, light and clean as a fresh install (or vanilla clean install).
    Code:
    Dism.exe /online /Cleanup-Image /StartComponentCleanup /ResetBase
    and a CleanMgr and you should have a clean WinSxS and SoftwareDistribution ( =Windows Update) and, finally, a light and clean Windows.
    Keep in mind that almost all of Windows components are managed with the WinSxS "technology".

    For example, my updated and customized virtual Windows installation is as "heavy" as a vanilla installation (less than 9 GB). It's a fact: a little cleanup and there is no more Windows backup and old files.

    I think that when a component is correctly "uninstalled" from WinSxS, its Hard Link (a sort of double of the entry this file) is also deleted, so there is NOT left over system file. Plus, it's rare because most updates replace or add files and don't delete files. But, I don't know for the registry hives. I think they are also cleaned but I don't know. I don't want to speak for non-Windows programs, of course. I hope that a CCleaner of something like that can clean registry hives and incorrect entries... It does, but maybe partially... So a not clean registry is possible.

    Sorry if I'm hard to convince, but I have many concrete arguments and I have a positive experiment towards this kind of maintenance. I especially began to make that since Windows 8.1, thus I do not really know how that takes place with Windows 7, but I think that it is more or less the same story.
    In fact, I'm in search of concrete cases to prove actually that it is better to make a clean installation. Without proof, I doubt and this rumor will remain a rumor, for me.

    Thank you for your understanding! Even more love!