Windows 7 - Win Explorer's UI behaviour changed for symbolic links?

Discussion in 'Windows 7' started by phaolo, Jan 8, 2019.

  1. phaolo

    phaolo MDL Novice

    Nov 3, 2015
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    Hello, after applying various OS updates, I noticed a (minor but annoying) change for symbolic links in Windows 7.

    When traversing folders in the Navigation Pane (the tree view), now Windows Explorer jumps to their original path (like a normal link), instead of remaining in its current tree structure like before.

    It works correctly if you traverse simlinks in the folder view (right panel), instead.
    Junctions kept their previous behaviour for both methods.
    Why did MS even bothered to modify it for simlinks?

    If you have Windows 7 (up to date), can you please test this issue?

    If you can see hidden folders, the easiest way to do it is here:
    "C:\Users\All Users\" is a symlink. Nav Pane jumps to "C:\ProgramData" now.
    "C:\Users\All Users\Documents" is a junction. Nav Pane stays in the same tree.
     
  2. foxyrick

    foxyrick MDL Junior Member

    Aug 25, 2011
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    Doesn't seem to happen here. I don't have an 'All Users' but my own symlinks navigate as expected... no jumping around.

    I haven't updated in a good few months though. I use Simplix when I do.
     
  3. Carlos Detweiller

    Carlos Detweiller MDL Spinning Tortoise

    Dec 21, 2012
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    Confirmed. Clicking the symlink jumps to the symlink target. Clicking a subdirectory of the symlink does not jump.

    Looks like a bug.
     
  4. foxyrick

    foxyrick MDL Junior Member

    Aug 25, 2011
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    I'll have to watch out for that one! I created some testers and it still doesn't happen here... yet.
     
  5. phaolo

    phaolo MDL Novice

    Nov 3, 2015
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    #5 phaolo, Jan 8, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2019
    (OP)
    You don't have "All Users"? Is your option to see hidden folders enabled?
    There should also be the "Default" and "Default User" directories in there.

    Anyway, do you know what's your (or Simplix's) last installed OS patch?

    If you can use the command line, please run this to see a list with the dates, sorted by KB number:
    Code:
    wmic qfe get hotfixid,description,installedon | sort /+18
    (or copy some by hand from the Installed Updates window)
     
  6. foxyrick

    foxyrick MDL Junior Member

    Aug 25, 2011
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    Sorry, I had 'hide protected operating system files' still checked. 'All Users' is there now I've unchecked that. I don't dive in there often so wasn't sure I should have them.

    My last updates are from the May 2018 Simplix pack. I have two PCs updated to that. Didn't realise it was that long ago (oops).

    Neither PC shows the jumping issue in the navigation pane on my own symlinks or on All Users.
     
  7. Carlos Detweiller

    Carlos Detweiller MDL Spinning Tortoise

    Dec 21, 2012
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    The "All Users" symlink dir only appears if you have Hidden and Super-Hidden items visible.

    "Show hidden files, folders and drives" must be selected.
    "Hide protected operating system files (Recommended)" must be UNCHECKED.

    Open a new Explorer window and the "All Users" should appear.
     
  8. phaolo

    phaolo MDL Novice

    Nov 3, 2015
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    Can you please give me some KB patches numbers + dates?
    I doubt I can see the old Simplix packs list (or I can't seem to find one).
     
  9. foxyrick

    foxyrick MDL Junior Member

    Aug 25, 2011
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    Sure...

    KB2479943 5/2/2018
    KB2491683 5/2/2018
    KB2506014 5/2/2018
    KB2506212 5/2/2018
    KB2506928 5/2/2018
    KB2509553 5/2/2018
    KB2533552 5/2/2018
    KB2534111 5/2/2018
    KB2545698 5/2/2018
    KB2547666 5/2/2018
    KB2552343 5/2/2018
    KB2560656 5/2/2018
    KB2563227 5/2/2018
    KB2564958 5/2/2018
    KB2574819 5/2/2018
    KB2579686 5/2/2018
    KB2592687 5/2/2018
    KB2603229 5/2/2018
    KB2604115 5/2/2018
    KB2620704 5/2/2018
    KB2621440 5/2/2018
    KB2631813 5/2/2018
    KB2640148 5/2/2018
    KB2647753 5/2/2018
    KB2654428 5/2/2018
    KB2660075 5/2/2018
    KB2667402 5/2/2018
    KB2670838 5/2/2018
    KB2685811 5/2/2018
    KB2685813 5/2/2018
    KB2690533 5/2/2018
    KB2698365 5/2/2018
    KB2705219 5/2/2018
    KB2716513 5/2/2018
    KB2719033 5/2/2018
    KB2719857 5/2/2018
    KB2726535 5/2/2018
    KB2727528 5/2/2018
    KB2729094 5/2/2018
    KB2732059 5/2/2018
    KB2732487 5/2/2018
    KB2736422 5/2/2018
    KB2742599 5/2/2018
    KB2750841 5/2/2018
    KB2761217 5/2/2018
    KB2763523 5/2/2018
    KB2770660 5/2/2018
    KB2773072 5/2/2018
    KB2786081 5/2/2018
    KB2791765 5/2/2018
    KB2799926 5/2/2018
    KB2800095 5/2/2018
    KB2807986 5/2/2018
    KB2808679 5/2/2018
    KB2813347 5/2/2018
    KB2813430 5/2/2018
    KB2818604 5/2/2018
    KB2830477 5/2/2018
    KB2834140 5/2/2018
    KB2840631 5/2/2018
    KB2841134 5/2/2018
    KB2843630 5/2/2018
    KB2847927 5/2/2018
    KB2849696 5/2/2018
    KB2849697 5/2/2018
    KB2852386 5/2/2018
    KB2853952 5/2/2018
    KB2857650 5/2/2018
    KB2861698 5/2/2018
    KB2862152 5/2/2018
    KB2862330 5/2/2018
    KB2862335 5/2/2018
    KB2864202 5/2/2018
    KB2868038 5/2/2018
    KB2868116 5/2/2018
    KB2871997 5/2/2018
    KB2882822 5/2/2018
    KB2884256 5/2/2018
    KB2891804 5/2/2018
    KB2892074 5/2/2018
    KB2893294 5/2/2018
    KB2893519 5/2/2018
    KB2894844 5/2/2018
    KB2900986 5/2/2018
    KB2908783 5/2/2018
    KB2911501 5/2/2018
    KB2912390 5/2/2018
    KB2918077 5/2/2018
    KB2919469 5/2/2018
    KB2923545 5/2/2018
    KB2929733 5/2/2018
    KB2931356 5/2/2018
    KB2937610 5/2/2018
    KB2943357 5/2/2018
    KB2966583 5/2/2018
    KB2968294 5/2/2018
    KB2970228 5/2/2018
    KB2972100 5/2/2018
    KB2973112 5/2/2018
    KB2973201 5/2/2018
    KB2973351 5/2/2018
    KB2977292 5/2/2018
    KB2978120 5/2/2018
    KB2978742 5/2/2018
    KB2984972 5/2/2018
    KB2985461 5/2/2018
    KB2991963 5/2/2018
    KB2992611 5/2/2018
    KB2999226 8/13/2018
    KB3000483 5/2/2018
    KB3003743 5/2/2018
    KB3004361 5/2/2018
    KB3004375 5/2/2018
    KB3006121 5/2/2018
    KB3006137 5/2/2018
    KB3010788 5/2/2018
    KB3011780 5/2/2018
    KB3013531 5/2/2018
    KB3020370 5/2/2018
    KB3020388 5/2/2018
    KB3020393 5/2/2018
    KB3021674 5/2/2018
    KB3022777 5/2/2018
    KB3023215 5/2/2018
    KB3030377 5/2/2018
    KB3035126 5/2/2018
    KB3037574 5/2/2018
    KB3042058 5/2/2018
    KB3042553 5/2/2018
    KB3045685 5/2/2018
    KB3046017 5/2/2018
    KB3046269 5/2/2018
    KB3054476 5/2/2018
    KB3055642 5/2/2018
    KB3059317 5/2/2018
    KB3060716 5/2/2018
    KB3064209 5/2/2018
    KB3067903 5/2/2018
    KB3071756 5/2/2018
    KB3072305 5/2/2018
    KB3074543 5/2/2018
    KB3075226 5/2/2018
    KB3078601 5/2/2018
    KB3078667 5/2/2018
    KB3080079 5/2/2018
    KB3084135 5/2/2018
    KB3086255 5/2/2018
    KB3092627 5/2/2018
    KB3093513 5/2/2018
    KB3097989 5/2/2018
    KB3101722 5/2/2018
    KB3102429 5/2/2018
    KB3107998 5/2/2018
    KB3108371 5/2/2018
    KB3108381 5/2/2018
    KB3108664 5/2/2018
    KB3109103 5/2/2018
    KB3109560 5/2/2018
    KB3110329 5/2/2018
    KB3121255 5/2/2018
    KB3122648 5/2/2018
    KB3126587 5/2/2018
    KB3127220 5/2/2018
    KB3137061 5/2/2018
    KB3138378 5/2/2018
    KB3138612 5/2/2018
    KB3138910 5/2/2018
    KB3139398 5/2/2018
    KB3139914 5/2/2018
    KB3140245 5/2/2018
    KB3147071 5/2/2018
    KB3150220 5/2/2018
    KB3156016 5/2/2018
    KB3156019 5/2/2018
    KB3159398 5/2/2018
    KB3161102 5/2/2018
    KB3161949 5/2/2018
    KB3161958 5/2/2018
    KB3170455 5/2/2018
    KB3177467 5/2/2018
    KB3179573 5/2/2018
    KB3181988 5/2/2018
    KB3184143 5/2/2018
    KB4014504 5/2/2018
    KB4014565 5/2/2018
    KB917607 5/2/2018
    KB958488 5/2/2018
    KB976902 11/21/2010
    KB982018 5/2/2018
     
  10. foxyrick

    foxyrick MDL Junior Member

    Aug 25, 2011
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    Actually... I've just realised those might be from even earlier. I think that's the date I reinstalled the PC, rather than the date I did the updates, and I used an install set I had made some time previously with integrated updates.

    It might not be much help to you in that case. Still, you have the KBs and can probably find the release date of those.
     
  11. phaolo

    phaolo MDL Novice

    Nov 3, 2015
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    #11 phaolo, Jan 8, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2019
    (OP)
    Thank you.
    Sadly there are too many differences with such old update and Simplix to identify the bad patch.

    Can anyone else without this issue give me his list?
     
  12. foxyrick

    foxyrick MDL Junior Member

    Aug 25, 2011
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    I have a fresh VM I've been playing with, no updates yet. I'll snapshot it and slap on one of the simplix packs I have - see if it breaks the symlink/explorer thing. Will need to run it over night though. I'll restore and try other packs to see if I can identify a month, at least.

    I'm interested to know myself because I routinely use symlinks in my setup.
     
  13. foxyrick

    foxyrick MDL Junior Member

    Aug 25, 2011
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    I've just realised that I installed my VM with another update-integrated pack - that's what I was playing with.

    The issue still does not happen with Simplix pack updates from December 2018. Again, I tried with both my own symlinks and 'All Users'. No jumping around.

    The update pack is Simplix 18.12.15, integrated with the en_windows_7_ultimate_with_sp1_x64_dvd_u_677332 ISO.

    Updates installed list:

    KB2479943
    KB2491683
    KB2506014
    KB2506212
    KB2506928
    KB2533552
    KB2534111
    KB2545698
    KB2547666
    KB2552343
    KB2560656
    KB2563227
    KB2564958
    KB2574819
    KB2579686
    KB2592687
    KB2603229
    KB2604115
    KB2620704
    KB2621440
    KB2631813
    KB2640148
    KB2647753
    KB2654428
    KB2660075
    KB2667402
    KB2670838
    KB2685811
    KB2685813
    KB2690533
    KB2698365
    KB2705219
    KB2716513
    KB2719033
    KB2719857
    KB2726535
    KB2727528
    KB2729094
    KB2732059
    KB2732487
    KB2736422
    KB2742599
    KB2750841
    KB2761217
    KB2763523
    KB2770660
    KB2773072
    KB2786081
    KB2791765
    KB2799926
    KB2800095
    KB2807986
    KB2808679
    KB2813347
    KB2813430
    KB2818604
    KB2830477
    KB2834140
    KB2840631
    KB2841134
    KB2843630
    KB2847927
    KB2849696
    KB2849697
    KB2852386
    KB2853952
    KB2857650
    KB2861698
    KB2862330
    KB2862335
    KB2864202
    KB2868038
    KB2871997
    KB2882822
    KB2884256
    KB2891804
    KB2893294
    KB2893519
    KB2894844
    KB2900986
    KB2908783
    KB2911501
    KB2912390
    KB2918077
    KB2919469
    KB2920188
    KB2923545
    KB2931356
    KB2937610
    KB2943357
    KB2966583
    KB2968294
    KB2970228
    KB2972100
    KB2972211
    KB2973201
    KB2977292
    KB2978120
    KB2978742
    KB2984972
    KB2985461
    KB2990941
    KB2991963
    KB2992611
    KB3000483
    KB3004375
    KB3006121
    KB3006137
    KB3010788
    KB3011780
    KB3013531
    KB3020370
    KB3020388
    KB3020393
    KB3021674
    KB3023215
    KB3030377
    KB3035126
    KB3037574
    KB3042058
    KB3045685
    KB3046017
    KB3046269
    KB3054476
    KB3055642
    KB3059317
    KB3060716
    KB3064209
    KB3067903
    KB3071756
    KB3072305
    KB3074543
    KB3075226
    KB3078667
    KB3086255
    KB3087873
    KB3093513
    KB3097989
    KB3102429
    KB3107998
    KB3108371
    KB3108664
    KB3109103
    KB3109560
    KB3110329
    KB3126587
    KB3127220
    KB3137061
    KB3138378
    KB3138612
    KB3138910
    KB3139398
    KB3139914
    KB3140245
    KB3147071
    KB3150220
    KB3156016
    KB3159398
    KB3161102
    KB3161949
    KB3177467
    KB3179573
    KB3184143
    KB4019990
    KB4040966
    KB4040980
    KB4054998
    KB4470641
    KB4471318
    KB917607
    KB976902
    KB982018
     
  14. phaolo

    phaolo MDL Novice

    Nov 3, 2015
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    Damn, my manually-updated system difference with Simplix is still a lot.
    Excluding the patches I installed in 2017 which didn't give me problems, these remain:

    KB4054176
    KB4056897
    KB4074587
    KB4088878
    KB4093108
    KB4284867
    KB4343899
    KB4345459
    KB4457145
    KB4462915
    KB4467106
    KB4470199
    KB4471328
     
  15. foxyrick

    foxyrick MDL Junior Member

    Aug 25, 2011
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    I've installed all of those, one at a time, on my VM with the existing updates I already listed. I tested after each one... but still cannot reproduce the issue here. All of them are now installed.

    Just to make sure I'm checking the right thing:

    The issue is that, when clicking on a symlink in Explorer's navigation pane (left side, folder tree) the cursor position in the navigation pane jumps to the linked folder instead of just opening the tree at the symlink. Correct?

    When I click on 'All Users', the contents ("Application Data, Desktop, etc) are displayed in the right pane and the cursor in the navigation pane stays where I clicked (Users/All Users).

    Looks like there might be more to it than a simple KB to find.
     
  16. phaolo

    phaolo MDL Novice

    Nov 3, 2015
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    Yeah, that's correct.
    Thanks for the tests.
    I hoped we were on the right track, but nope..

    I wonder if these programs could contribute in creating such specific issue, combined to new patches:
    - Classic Shell
    - Link Shell Extension.
     
  17. phaolo

    phaolo MDL Novice

    Nov 3, 2015
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    Can you please post your updates list too?
    Also, do you happen to use the programs above?
     
  18. foxyrick

    foxyrick MDL Junior Member

    Aug 25, 2011
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    #18 foxyrick, Jan 9, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
    I got it to reproduce... give me a minute to confirm... confirmed!

    I installed Classic Shell on my VM. LSE was already installed. I don't use Classic Shell, but I tried a few things that looked like it might cause an effect... nothing. Until...

    In Explorer, I went to Tools/Folder Options/General, and ticked "Automatically expand to current folder". That instantly reproduced the issue!

    I've repeated a few times - that seems to be the culprit with Classic Shell installed. On my 'real' PC without Classic Shell, ticking that box does not reproduce the issue.

    Try unticking that option, if you have it ticked...
     
  19. phaolo

    phaolo MDL Novice

    Nov 3, 2015
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    #19 phaolo, Jan 9, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
    (OP)
    Yeah, that fixes it, good job.

    However... the problem is that I find that option quite useful, so this isn't exactly an ideal solution for me.
    Also this didn't happen before the updates, so a patch must still be the culprit.

    Sadly, Classic Shell isn't going to be updated anymore.
    There is a replacement called Open-Shell, but I have no idea if it's a worthy successor (and if it fixes this bug).
     
  20. adric

    adric MDL Addicted

    Jul 30, 2009
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    As long as it does the job, why do you need updates for that app? I'm still using it with W8.1, W10 v1809. I will look for an alternative when it stops working with the OS.