Discussion in 'Windows 7' started by Enthousiast, May 13, 2013.
P.S. I'm mostly pointing out stuff that's already in OP. You just have to read it.
Yea i read that but was confused.. thanks for replaying.. wish you the best..
...no disrespect taken, and thanks for response. I am not blaming anyone at MDL, it's far more likely that Microsoft changed the code in a newer update which affects only certain apps.
I was redirected to this forum from
I got the old pack from a link on page 1 on that forum but I notice it has now been updated to the new version. I was only trying to confirm that I am now in the right forum and using the right Simplix integrator.
I did an update a while back on XP using the unofficial Harkaz SP4 updater. No matter how well instructions are laid out, there are always gray areas in the interpretation. For example, in the Harkaz updater it was not explained that the final integrated disk did not allow a repair install. Part of the reason I want to use the Simplix integrator for W7 is to run a repair install on an existing W7 installation. It has since been explained how to do that, but if I had not asked, I would have had a W7 integrated installation disk that would not allow a repair install.
...I understand all that, I have already applied the Update pack from two months before.
...that presumes I am a complete noob, which I'm not. I understand perfectly what the integrator is meant to do, I have not even tried to apply it yet. All I was asking is this. Has anyone noticed that the updates from the updater have stopped apps from working? I was asking that based on many years of experience which have urged me to be clear as to the effect of using such a tool.
I laid it out specifically and received a reply that suggested I was withholding information. So, I replied again, explaining that I have 3 different W7 installations wherein each installation has a differing number of updates ranging from 57 in a new W7 installation with SP1 and updates from the Updater to122 updates and 265 respectively.
Please note: the app in question works in the W7 installation with 122 updates.
One explanation offered is that cumulative update KB3125574 removes a lot of updates. However, it is in my installation with 122 updates and in the one performed by the Updater. Yet one has 122 updates and the other has 57 updates.
I have explained all that in detail. in a post to shhnedo dated Monday at 16:51.
I need to be clear that I was not asking for help with the app. I mentioned it only to see if anyone else had experienced a similar problem. I am well equipped for troubleshooting this on my own. If I find an issue with an update I'll let you know.
I have 20 years of reverse engineering experience and I am just preparing to run the app with a debugger, then I'll know where it fails. Right now, it fails right after the opening splash screen and an error is found in the Event Viewer. Since the error is via werfault.exe the amount of error detail is limited. There is no BSOD.
There is an exception code: 0xC0000005 which I relate to a memory error. That would be typical of an app trying to reach an address in a module that is not there because Microsoft changed it. It's not as if the app is trying to access illegal memory, which might produce a BSOD. It likely just came to an address with a CALL that leads nowhere.
Well, you are. You have yet to name the app.
I'm not completely sure what you mean by:
There is a fine line of distinction between "not asking for help with the app" and wanting help regarding changes to the OS that cause the app not to run. The app and the OS work together, or in your case they don't.
I appreciate your concern about staying within forum policies regarding discussing reverse engineering or modifying apps. From my experience, MDL is quite lax, open, and forgiving about such discussions, compared to other forums. MDL seems to believe that you are within your rights to modify your own hardware or software as you see fit in order to accomplish your goals. Your comments imply, at least to me, that this mysterious music app has been modified to run on either hardware or an OS that it was not designed or approved to run on? MDL is full of examples of other such endeavors, from running Win 7 on newer hardware than what it was designed for, to running Win 11 on older hardware than it was designed for, and to running apps on either older or newer OS than they were designed for. To get around these problems, folks often end up modifying either the installation methods or the OS or apps themselves. Depending on various factors, it is sometimes frowned upon sharing the modified files themselves, but I have never seen a case where sharing the methods used so that others could modify their own files in a similar manner was discouraged.
What is the harm in naming the app? If you don't want to get into detail of the changes that were required to get it to run and how you you figured them out, no one will make you say, though I'm sure many will be curios and some will ask. There are also other things to consider. If you name the app then there might be someone else who is also running that app that you can compare notes with more productively than with the general public. Also, if someone was considering using that or a similar app, then they will have significantly more interest in following this conversation than they would otherwise.
Bottom line, to my knowledge, as to the general question of whether:
no one has mentioned such a phenomenon anywhere in the 204 pages of this thread, or anywhere else on MDL that I have seen. Sure, there have been cases in the past when individual updates from MS have interfered with certain apps, or have even caused entire OS to crash or lock up, but MS has usually replaced those updates when the problems became known. No such problem updates have been purposely included in the updater, at least not any that are still there that we know of. If your problem is caused by such a problem update, we will look forward to hearing about it if you are able to determine which one it is. If that happens, thank you in advance for helping make the updater better for us all.
With equal good humour, I am having trouble understanding what the fuss is re naming the app. My reluctance stems from my years in reverse engineering wherein it was known that most apps have a stated declaration that reversing the app is illegal. Since I am not officially reversing the app, but trying to find where in the code it fails, I don't think I'm doing anything illegal. However, most music apps these days employ heavy protection schemes and they have Digital Rights Management snoops patrolling the Net looking for evidence of reversing or illegal sharing. Therefore, I am reluctant to draw attention to it.
I agree with MDL that a person 'should' be able to modify his/her own hardware or software, and I do when necessary, but I won't name the app I am reversing on the Net. I participated in a reversing forum for 20 years and we would discus code snippets without naming apps. Of course, some people would name an app and ask for specific help. However, some people have developed means of hiding their URLs so they can't be tracked by snoops. I was never into hiding my identity to that extent therefore I was careful not to name apps I was working on.
But seriously, and with humour, this is not about the app, As I indicated, I have more than enough experience to troubleshoot the problem on my own. My question was more to do with re-inventing the wheel. In the past, I have spent hours, even days, trying to troubleshoot a problem only to have someone step up and tell me the problem is a longstanding issue and here's the solution.
I learned about MDL from participating in the forum at win-raid. A couple of the guys posting at win-raid also posts here and passed the MDL URL on. I was drawn here initially by danielk's modded XP drivers, although I already had modded USB and SATA drivers from win-raid for both XP and W7 for the Intel 300-series chipset.
I thought it was great of MDL to host danielk's drivers and I have since learned of the great work MDL does for W7 stuff. As an example of the Internet snoops, Intel, of all people, served notice that no one could talk about code in files with the extension .sys. Up till the 300-series chipset, Intel had been very cooperative about supplying information helpful to chipset designers and those who wished to understand the chipsets or the assembly code involved. In essence, they are now enabling Microsoft to discontinue support for XP, and now W7.
I don't mind helping anyone out, but again, this forum is not about reverse engineering, and I did not want to take advantage. I don't plan to be modding code to get it to run, only to find where it is failing and to identify the system module where it is failing.
When I find the problem, if it is peculiar to the app, then I don't mind naming it, and saying why it is failing. I'm sure it is related to a specific update because it works fine in another version of W7. That will help with troubleshooting since I can compare the code in the working app to the code in the failing app. Until them, I'd rather not draw the attention of Internet cops to the app or to this site
EXACTLY! Because the rest of your system, including all of your other apps, are working correctly, I think your question really boils down to this:
"I have a Win 7 system that, for the most part, works correctly. The OS and almost all of my apps are working well after updating my system with Win 7 updates, using the Simplix updater. All except one app. I believe that nothing is wrong with that app, since that same app works correctly in other Win 7 installations. All of the installations have similar hardware installed. [Assuming this is true. If the problem installation has any different hardware, that might help point to the problem.] Those other installations have different numbers of system updates applied, and those numbers of system updates are different than those on my problem installation. This leads me to believe that the problem is probably one or more particular Win 7 updates that are interfering with my app. The app I'm having a problem with is __________. In my problem installation, the app fails to start. It fails right after the opening splash screen and an error is found in the Event Viewer. Since the error is via werfault.exe the amount of error detail is limited. There is no BSOD. There is an exception code: 0xC0000005 which I relate to a memory error. That would be typical of an app trying to reach an address in a module that is not there because Microsoft changed it. It's not as if the app is trying to access illegal memory, which might produce a BSOD. It likely just came to an address with a CALL that leads nowhere. Is anyone aware of any particular Win 7 updates that cause problems with the app __________, or have you seen similar behavior in other circumstances?"
Did I describe the situation correctly? If you would have stated your problem like that from the beginning, I don't think that any "reverse engineering" attention would have been applied to your situation. I think it could still be handled that way, if you would like. It seems that your reverse engineering background might have made you overly cautious and complicated the presentation of your situation. Or maybe I'm just naive, and I'm not being cautious enough.
In any case, best of luck in your investigation, and I'm looking forward to hearing what you find out.
Cheers and Regards, my friend.
EDIT: It just occurred to me to ask if you have run SFC on the problem installation, and if so, what was the result?
I used code belove but ie11 isnt there.. everything was integrated except ie11
UpdatePack7R2.exe /ie11 /WimFile=C:\install.wim /Index=5
IE11 switch is not needed anymore, simplix made it integrate IE11 by default months ago.
@bphlpt mate, just let it go. Let the guy "reverse engineer" as much as he likes. It's a certain type of people who are incapable of providing simple information because of some weird, outlandish reason. The user is already on my ignore list because of the page and a half of walls of nonsense he keeps posting. I suggest you do the same.
@Difermo Despite not needing the /ie11 switch anymore, ie11 integration is still shown in the integration window(and in the log after completion), so double check with your log and maybe even post it here in a [ code ] [ /code ] tag(without the spaces).
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Then I definitely have both of them installed. I will try updating with the latest update pack and report back.
For the record, I run the 64bit version of the app on 64bit w7.
You are listed as an MDL expert yet you lack the reading comprehension to understand a simple explanation. I had to repeat my explanation while dumbing it down. Your first reply to me was so oblique as to be unintelligible.
I have been posting in forums for more than 20 years and have no problem being understood. I post at win-raid regularly and no one has trouble understanding what I am saying. Why are you having so much trouble understanding a very simple explanation?
1)My app was working.
2) I applied UpdatePack7R2-21.7.7.exe and the app stopped working.
Seriously, do you have that much of a problem understanding simple logic? If I had stated the problem that simply you would have been all over mee wanting more information.
Thanks for your help and your good wishes. I have run sfc and chkdsk. As I said, the problem began after applying UpdatePack7R2-21.7.7.exe and that indicates a particular problem with the app, not the update.
I'm almost sorry I asked. @shhnedo read far too much into the problem and mislead you into thinking there were deeper issues. Anyone who regards himself as an expert and lacks the patience or ability to understand a problem should not be advising anyone.
First verify the intentions and contributions of the members helping here, before you post judging and somewhat insulting opinions about respected MDL members trying to help people, only because you can't handle the answers given.
I used UpdatePack7R2 21.9.15 in a computer which had a clean install of Windows 7 Professional SP1 64-bit done to it over the weekend and which was up to date to its January 2020 EOL date.
It worked fine and brought the operating system up to date to September 2021.
I ran Windows Update afterwards, and other than wanting to install the Microsoft Edge browser, it showed no further updates were available.
@Enthousiast: Is there a simplix pack available for Windows 8.1? I looked but didn't see one.
No, there are some projects out there but i would recommend to use WHD+W81UI.
There's also the up4o update pack from @3zero3 - unfortunately, he didn't get a dedicated topic.