Sledgehammer - Windows 10 Update Control

Discussion in 'MDL Projects and Applications' started by pf100, Nov 28, 2016.

  1. rpo

    rpo MDL Expert

    Jan 3, 2010
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    Using Sledgehammer is mandatory if you want to delay Windows Updates for more then 35 days with Windows 2004, even for Enterprise.
     
  2. Rev11

    Rev11 MDL Novice

    Oct 9, 2017
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    I think I like that the site is just opened through the browser instead of within the script, just seems cleaner to me.
     
  3. awuctl

    awuctl MDL Novice

    Jun 6, 2020
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    Could anyone enlighten me about what this tool is actually supposed to do?

    This seems exactly like what Windows Update does.
    It's automatic, you know how and when it does its thing, you can disable it, you can put off updates, you can choose the time at which they are installed. What else do you need?

    So you're saying Windows Update bypasses Windows Update..?

    All of those parts of Windows Update are meant to fix it when it's broken.
    The purpose of that is not to "force updates". It's so that regular users will not have problems when they're stuck on Threshold 1 to this day because Windows Update died 5 years ago.

    When was the last time that happened?
    You can defer updates for just long enough to know precisely when they're coming.
    You can set active hours when Windows Update will not download or install updates.
    You can disable automatic updates in general.

    Why completely destroy the whole thing just to have it not do what it's supposed to do for a short time?
    For that you could just as well configure it to update when you're not actively using the computer.

    How much more control do you have over Windows Update using this tool compared to just configuring it properly or disabling it altogether?
     
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  4. Skunk1966

    Skunk1966 MDL Junior Member

    Jul 15, 2011
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    why don't you just try it and find out? There must be a reason why me and lots of others are so happy with this tool!;)
     
  5. Whistler4

    Whistler4 MDL Member

    Jul 30, 2015
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    From what you say, this tool is not for you. You're happy with Microsoft's policy of minimal control for users over Windows Update in Windows 10. But now you know where Sledgehammer is when Windows Update does become a problem for you, if ever.

    There are many reasons for a user to not want to update. For example, I have three computers that can't run a feature update higher than 1803 without breaking the sleep/wake function because of the chipset (same model motherboards). I have another computer that won't boot if I apply a cumulative or security update to 1909. I have other computers with more current hardware that generally take whatever MS throws at them (unless the updates have major bugs, which is common). Note also that Windows 2004 has significantly taken away user control over Windows Update. Sledgehammer allows me to suspend updates and examine what updates are available without installing them. MS Windows Update does not adequately do that regardless of what you've been led to believe.

    You may suggest that I just buy new hardware. I choose to not have that dictated to me by MS.

    Yeah, there are 80 pages of this thread, but if you at least go back to page 1, you should get some answers to your questions. I assume that, since you took the time to write your questions and present the reasons you think MS WU is satisfactory, you honestly want to understand the issue that others have that Sledgehammer solves for them. If you haven't seen the Internet communities and forums that deal with the unstoppable moving train of Windows 10 updates, you could start with AskWoody.

    Good luck.
     
  6. Whistler4

    Whistler4 MDL Member

    Jul 30, 2015
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    Well, I hope you'll be more open minded.
     
  7. awuctl

    awuctl MDL Novice

    Jun 6, 2020
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  8. pf100

    pf100 MDL Expert

    Oct 22, 2010
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    No you can't, and no they haven't. Connect a full upgraded pc to the internet. Set your update settings any way you want. A year later it will have updated.
     
  9. awuctl

    awuctl MDL Novice

    Jun 6, 2020
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    And your proof/source is..? Your "no and no because no" is anything but convincing.
    I have a Windows 10 Pro VM that hasn't had a single update in over one and a half years with those exact group policy settings applied. Give me one single instance wherein those exact settings are applied and an update is installed automatically against your will and I'll believe you.
    For the sake of your argument I'll ignore that not updating a modern operating system for a year is absolutely moronic outside of LTSC-esque use cases or with severe hardware compatibility issues.
    The very reason Microsoft is "forcing" (by your standards, not mine) updates is because **you shouldn't** (not ""can't" or "mustn't". Just shouldn't) be using a continuously updated product that is two years out of date.

    Microsoft wants you to update to have the latest features and improvements and in case of any problems to report the issue so that their product is better by the next release. The more people do that the sooner the issue will be addressed.
    Instead of helping yourself and all others facing the same issue by telling them, for example "there is an issue with this chipset, get that on the feedback hub" so that the issue is fixed (because they clearly do not hinder hardware compatibility on purpose) you directly hinder the overall progress on the operating system's development by making a faulty generalization and stating that continuous improvement needs to stop.

    I guess the "a year later it will have updated" part is referring to the update delay/defer option I mentioned and if so you probably don't fully understand what it does; It's not "no updates for X days", it's "delay future updates to install X days after their release".
     
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  10. Whistler4

    Whistler4 MDL Member

    Jul 30, 2015
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    I understand your point - I didn't scan the full gist of that thread, so I'm sorry to take your quote out of context. But, the tool in this thread is entirely optional. Plus, it's simple to use, very effective, and fully reversible. In addition, it's packaged to install into the Windows Start menu if you want. I don't think anyone is pushing it; however, many are grateful for it.

    Umm, please rethink whether "aren't important at all" to you = aren't important to anyone. "Even a minority of users": Doesn't just one person qualify as a minority?

    I'm glad you've learned many settings, workarounds, and techniques to disable or defer Windows Updates. But some of them are also "aggressive" (deletion of a service), risky (registry edits), or not available (group policy for Home edition). (I'm comfortable making the changes that you mention, but why bother when I have good alternatives. Also, using a myriad of settings and other techniques involves lots of moving parts and staying on top of the game.) And what Microsoft giveth, Microsoft taketh away. Hidden updates do not stay hidden, what's deferred today is not guaranteed to be a deferable in the future, and registry, policy, and services can be changed by MS in any update.
     
  11. Whistler4

    Whistler4 MDL Member

    Jul 30, 2015
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    @SatyaNadella, is that you?
     
  12. awuctl

    awuctl MDL Novice

    Jun 6, 2020
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    What the tool does is, in my opinion of course, overall destructive overthinking.
    I misphrased that; I mean it in the context that "bad Windows updates" that seem to be the fan-favorite topic on most tech news sites (which influence people to use such drastic measures as outright killing Windows Update) are generally only bad in extremely specific circumstances that are, at the very least, not common (headline "Newest Windows Update causes data loss", content "outdated driver on pre-fail IDE hard drives collides with improvements to the generic* file system driver and causes data loss").

    * - It's often the case that generic and simultaneously not device-agnostic drivers cause compatibility issues. It's one of the things that can only be fixed by user reports; Their QA can't have all the hardware in the world.
    It's correct that service deletion is an extreme that should not be followed. Registry edits are reversible and, as is the case with the ones I posted, officially recommended for achieving that specific goal. Group policy is simply a frontend to the registry and they are interchangeable for the most part and both ways are documented.

    I don't think the changes that are done by this tool (permission override for critical system files and services, among others) are completely reversible (not the permissions but the errors their incorrect state might've caused elsewhere) and safe. With advice from Microsoft I can be sure the facilities utilized to achieve the goal were meant (or otherwise prepared) to be used that way. They provide a script (Windows Restricted Traffic Limited Functionality Baseline) for applying all those changes in the article that I think is absolutely enough unless you need to absolutely annihilate every single component of Windows Update and all its leftovers for some particular reason.

    awu "Certified Microsoft Shill" ctl.
    At your service.
     
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  13. Whistler4

    Whistler4 MDL Member

    Jul 30, 2015
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    @awuctl, good talk. You've got some valid points. Agree to disagree on your contention that this tool maims Windows. I prefer to emulate Windows 7 control over Windows 10 updates for my state-of-the art hardware and freeze Windows 10 updates for my machines that have severe hardware incompatibilities. Sledgehammer works well for me, and if it's destroyed my OS functionality, I haven't noticed.

    BTW, my experience with the usefulness of the feedback hub is that it was a joke. But I imagine that my feedback input and lack of result was atypical.
     
  14. awuctl

    awuctl MDL Novice

    Jun 6, 2020
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    I know for certain that Sledgehammer makes a mess in the event log and certain system utilities relating to service management will get very confused as to what's happening. Not sure of the greater impact as I haven't really "studied" the tool.
    The Feedback Hub is just poorly executed and the lack of (even the most basic or automatic) moderation makes it ten times worse. It's just an endless collection of "printer not print" but some good has definitely come out of it and things can only get better from now on (I hope).

    You certainly have some valid points as well though we clearly have different opinions and preferences in regards to the whole thing. It's best to agree to disagree, as you said.
    It's rare to have a proper discussion on any topic these days and I appreciate that you're one of those people still capable of that. Good one.
     
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