What do you think about Electric Cars?

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by Katzenfreund, Aug 24, 2017.

?

Will your next car be electric?

  1. My next car will be electric

  2. I’ll wait several years for prices to drop

  3. I’m not convinced by them, I’ll buy conventional

  4. I am undecided, far more info is required

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
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  2. JFKI

    JFKI MDL Expert

    Oct 25, 2015
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    https://forums.mydigitallife.net/th...about-electric-cars.74979/page-2#post-1369771

    :whistling: to the tune of jeopardy.
     
  3. Katzenfreund

    Katzenfreund MDL Expert

    Jul 15, 2016
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    There’s a rule of thumb in Engineering, that the damage to the environment for manufacturing a certain product, is roughly proportional to its price. This is because a higher price means more resources are used.

    Based on the above, the manufacture of EVs being much more expensive, causes much more damage to the environment. To this we must add the cost of the replacement battery, manufacture of chargers, as well as maintenance costs over the lives of both types of vehicles. So it’s not just fuel costs.

    Now, so-called experts are telling us that when all costs are included, EVs are friendlier to the environment than ICEs. But the calculation is extremely complex. Furthermore, many assumptions have to be made about unknown factors, such as future developments in fuel prices and technology. Consequently, I’m not at all convinced that the calculations are all-inclusive and correct.

    But there’s also another environmental consideration, namely pollution of the cities where people actually live and care about. And here the EVs easily win. This makes me fear that people will adopt them for their present well being, claiming they’re overall better, and not caring about future generations.

    Après moi le déluge. (King Louis XV)
     
  4. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    Yes, we are making advances in getting renewables more readily available and cheaper - ever more so. So, sure... we know oil is not renewable, hence it will get ever more expensive...

    Do the maths...
     
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  5. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    "If Houstonians really received a wake-up call from Harvey… their rebuilding could help the whole planet. If they seize the moment to say, 'We’re going to start getting off oil, and we’re going to start reorienting our industries toward renewable energy,' it would make a huge difference." - Bill McKibben, 350.org http://ow.ly/Bad330eZgFS
     
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  6. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    https://evobsession.com/ev-battery-prices-40-lower-than-in-2010/

    EV Battery Prices Fall 40% In 2 Years
    • Published on July 4th, 2013 by Zach
    One of the hardest and most critical factors to project when it comes to electric vehicles is the price of batteries, which make up a huge portion of an EV’s price. However, the trend is pretty obvious.

    As this graph below shows, EV battery prices have fallen 40% since 2010. Regarding the future, BMWboard member Ian Robertson says, “in the next three to four years there will be more progress in battery development than in the previous 100 years.” Here’s a Bloomberg New Energy Financegraph on recent and projected trends:
    [​IMG]

    When it comes to total ownership costs, EVs are already cheaper than gasmobiles for many people. As battery prices continue to drop, more and more EVs will be cheaper from Day 1. At such a point, what we be the rationale for buying a gasmobile? If range is the only remaining issue (and that shouldn’t even be an issue within a few years), people can simply rent a car once in awhile for those long-distance trips. Doing so would be far, far cheaper than buying a gasmobile for that occasional need. (And, as noted above, it’s already more logical for many people to go the electric route on a total cost of ownership basis and simply rent a gasmobile when in need.)
     
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  7. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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  8. Joe C

    Joe C MDL Guru

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    If everybody started driving electric cars today, how many batteries would be in the landfills in the next 20 or 30 years?
    That'll make for a hell of a lot batteries over 20 year time span
    We are in fact just trading one evil for another in a guise of being "eco friendly"
     
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  9. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    JFK, I am well aware of the Nikola Tesla story around the electric car, I know where you came up with your first post here (nuclear etc.). But it is all speculation. We have no real data, sadly. And I think this would be a helluva lot more dangerous than batteries.

    Batteries with recycling or fossil fuel...??? Hmmmm...

    http://www.greencarreports.com/news...t-happens-to-them-after-coming-out-of-the-car

    Btw, I can see that all your prejudices being "destroyed", guys - you stil do not acknowledge that you are heavily prejudiced without reason. Instead, you keep trying to find something, anything, desperately trying to rationalise your baseless animosity.... Ahem...
     
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  10. JFKI

    JFKI MDL Expert

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    #71 JFKI, Sep 11, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2017
    Still waiting for:
    https://forums.mydigitallife.net/th...about-electric-cars.74979/page-2#post-1369771

    That's OK, don't bother. I am done hitting the "show ignored content" button.

    Edit to add: I am glad YOU know where I "came up with your first post here (nuclear etc.)" because since I came up with my posts "off the cuff, and enhanced with my own practical knowledge" in my posts within this thread even I do not know... Or put simply YOU have demonstrated to me that YOU know nothing.
    BTW, A decent tractor is equipped with a powertrain which consumes 372.849936 KWH.
    Can you now do your battery calculations ? Didn't think so.
     
  11. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    #72 gorski, Sep 11, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2017
    Jeezus, how not to understand anything at all and try to be "clever" about it...

    The story of Tesla's electric car and how he powered it, that is what I referred to... Never mind...

    Buses are already on it (EVs/batteries, that is, there are loads of them!), vans, trucks are already planned...

    And we, Humans - unlike you :D - can and do learn, improve, invent etc.

    Technology can not be stopped, even if all of you conservatives of the world kneel together and pray very, very hard... :D It's getting ever more powerful and ever smaller!

    It's just a matter of when, oh clever one... (Jeezus, what a bore, being a conservative... :D )
     
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  12. Joe C

    Joe C MDL Guru

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    gorski, the way you speak of praying and jezus one would think your a very religious person. Are you one of those closet christians?
     
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  13. Mr.X

    Mr.X MDL Guru

    Jul 14, 2013
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    [​IMG]
     
  14. Katzenfreund

    Katzenfreund MDL Expert

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    China eyes eventual ban of petrol and diesel cars
    September 10, 2017

    Beijing’s move would follow similar push for electric vehicles by UK and France

    A growing movement to eventually ban combustion engine cars has received a boost with a statement from China — the world’s largest car market — that it is studying such a move.

    Comments by a senior government official published on Sunday signaled that China might soon join the UK and France. Both countries recently announced they would prohibit the production of diesel and petrol cars by 2040.

    https://www.ft.com/content/d3bcc6f2-95f0-11e7-a652-cde3f882dd7b
     
  15. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

    Jul 26, 2012
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    I don't think that China has much of a choice. The air is so thick that you can cut it with a spatula. :eek:
     
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  16. JFKI

    JFKI MDL Expert

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    You could probably run internal combustion engines just by adding oxygen there. The fuel is already in the air.
     
  17. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

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    All your prejudices, guys, have been shown through, so without an argument it's ad hominem... :rolleyes: Boooo!!! :D
     
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  18. Michaela Joy

    Michaela Joy MDL Crazy Lady

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    @gorski: What are you on about?!?

    You are an intellectual, are you not? Do you not see the proverb "Necessity is the mother of invention" at work here?

    I do. Their lives depend on it to work. Unfortunately, this is what it takes to make an entire nation pivot and do something.
    Dire need. And the Chinese are Damn good at design. Okay, their materials (steel) leave a little to be desired, but I'm no Metallurgist.

    If I have to, I'll become one. ;)

    Necessity. Sorry to say that this is what it takes.

    The stance being taken by many of the members here (In this thread) is that of the metaphoric Man from Kentucky..."Show Me".
    And I can understand that; the science is still weak, but promising. ;)

    Very promising. ;)

    Look at cambridge, and the work they're doing with Lithium / Air.
     
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  19. gorski

    gorski MDL Guru

    Oct 21, 2009
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    No, Michaela, for crying out loud - can't you see I am FOR this change...?!? Just look at my posts, unlike JFK, for instance, who posts with vehement prejudices but fails to inform himself even minimally...

    So, there are a few conservative minds here, under full spell of the oil companies...

    Ach, never mind...
     
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