all Windows 8 OEM need UEFI ?

Discussion in 'Windows 8' started by B8, Oct 14, 2011.

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  1. Yen

    Yen Admin (retired)
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    OK let me summarize this thread with all the infos, sources are the Chinese links posted already and found at Chinese sites.

    OA3.0:

    -M$ delivers unique OEM serials to the OEMs. Unique means one for each device to be licensed and valid for OA3.0

    -The OEMs have got a OA3tool, it creates a bin file from the serial. This bin file is ready to be flashed with their own OEM flashtools into e.g. NVRAM of a BIOS or UEFI.

    -The BIOS / UEFI creates from the key a MSDM ACPITable. The table will be probably protected to prevent the alternation of a current MSDMTable (also a already present empty table).

    -The OA3tool creates also a CBR, a computer build report. This XML file contains infos such as the used serial and a 128 bit hardware hash, which matches the hardware of the machine. This report is stored on HDD until it will be sent to M$. The CBR will be sent to M$ and deleted from the HDD.

    -Finally the device is ready to ship. Theoretically the OEM could activate the device already.

    So even if the OA3tool should leak, the used and known serial is already a part of a CBR stored at M$ activation server.



    Neither UEFI nor secure boot is required (no word about these found so far).
    This is the summary of the thread. :)
     
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  2. craftbrewer

    craftbrewer MDL Senior Member

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    a nice summary

    BUT whats stopping a leak off a single machine where all the information is available and a activation hack is worked out. As long as you dont allow the machine to phone home to M$, you will have a fully functional Windows 8 OEM.

    Then for updates you will see websites pop up everywhere with all the updates you need to download will be available. (this happened in the early days of XP.)

    seems having such a unique setup, you also have a unique way to crack it.

    l
     
  3. nononsence

    nononsence MDL Addicted

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    #543 nononsence, May 29, 2012
    Last edited: May 29, 2012
    It will have to phone home to activate in the first place like retail activation is the current accepted thinking.

    the devil is in the details, in the above summery the obvious exploit would be to hook the hashing algorithm with
    a kernel mode driver and always return the hash of an OEM machine, IF an OEM license allows for a few reactivation's
    you could then then borrow the information from Mom's Windows 8 PC and activate your gaming rig. as long as you
    did not share your exploit or get greedy and activate too many machines you might slip under the radar. I'm not seeing
    a lot of possibility's for unchecked mass piracy. Windows 8 new UI is pretty polarizing ether you love it and think it's
    beautiful or you hate it and see it as Microsoft cashing in on the appification of every thing. If you love it you should
    buy it.

     
  4. craftbrewer

    craftbrewer MDL Senior Member

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    #544 craftbrewer, May 29, 2012
    Last edited: May 29, 2012
    That to me is the key. If you HAVE TO be on the internet to activate it gets a lot harder. I have read there will be no more "phone activation". But then if thats the case, if you want a standalone , you cant get it activated.

    If its like now, where you buy a new activated laptop, and that carries on with windows 8, then yes one can set up a specific crack, just dont let it phone home. BUT if Windows 8 requires internet access to activate for all purchases, and that is the only option, then M$ might lose some sales, but it will be very secure
     
  5. Yen

    Yen Admin (retired)
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  6. Stannieman

    Stannieman MDL Guru

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    Another thing is if it has to phone home at regular basis or not. If it's like now "activated = activated" then it's easier.
    Cbr/activation server probably can't be faked just like today.

    1 interesting thing also is that since there is no certificate involved and the key is in BIOS/UEFI, the activation is a pure OS version + HARDWARE + MS SERVER combo, which means the user never needs to enter a serial when installing win 8 on a machine with valid MSDM. End users never have to worry about activation anymore.

    Like already said the only way is to spoof the hwhash of the machine you took the MSDM from, but to many activations is risky.

    So, focus to vl activation and rearm I guess?
     
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  7. nononsence

    nononsence MDL Addicted

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    the MSDM allows for longer keys using more of the charters that are not used now to avoid confusion like
    the letter O and the number 0 or the letter l or letter I and the number 1.

    I'm still not 100% convinced that the hw hash or what ever is not stored on the bios chip somewhere, the
    patent that Yen posted for secure serial number stated that no cryptographic evaluation will occur on the
    local machine, UEFI has authenticated storage meaning that some data can only be accessed with the correct
    cryptoraphic key this would be a good place to store the hardware hash, and could prevent hacker tricks like
    hooking functions or code injection. if you search through the recent ASUS firmware for "DO NOT TRUST" you
    will find a key from Microsoft. and is suspect the newer MSOA module is using the authenticated storage
    facilities in the UEFI firmware, tough I'm not sure about that yet.

     
  8. Yen

    Yen Admin (retired)
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    No info about the online process when activating yet. The CBR doesn't seem to be stored anywhere locally after it has been sent to M$. Also no word about requirement of UEFI for OA3.0.
    The mentioned patent is interesting, though.
     
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  9. Tito

    Tito Admin / Adviser
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    #549 Tito, Jun 3, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 20, 2017
  10. Tito

    Tito Admin / Adviser
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    In India, most of the big OEMs roll out their models & prepare them for 'future', such as Lenovo Z570 will be Z580. I talked with some shop owners & most of them confirmed that the transition is due to new Ivy bridge CPUs & Windows 8. I think they will be equipped with UEFI, Ivy bridge CPUs & Windows 8 ;) (+ MSDM tables with real data).

    :) ;)
     
  11. Tito

    Tito Admin / Adviser
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    Last but not the least, (though completely unrelated to this thread) recent bios upgrades from Lenovo (at least) forcibly on UEFI mode by default.

    :bounce4:
     
  12. Yen

    Yen Admin (retired)
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    The real 'data' are just a 5x5 digit unique key. Interesting will be the hashing and the CBR.

    It seems the MSDM table will also get two different names, lol
    Microsoft Data Management (MSDM) table and Microsoft Digital Marker Table

    SLIC = SoftwareLicenseInternalCode and software licensing description table
     
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  13. Michel

    Michel MDL Expert

    Jul 29, 2009
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    So windows 8 needs a slic and a key in the bios ?
     
  14. Stannieman

    Stannieman MDL Guru

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    #554 Stannieman, Jun 10, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2012
    Nope, key and MSDM table. The MSDM is unique for each system cause it's derived from the unique key, whereas all slic tables on any computer are exactly the same for each pc from that OEM.
     
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  15. Michel

    Michel MDL Expert

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    Well if people extract the MSDM and the Key then it's possible to verify it right ??? or does it check for Hardware as well ? If so is it not possible to add something in the bios so you make let it think you own that hardware ?
     
  16. Yen

    Yen Admin (retired)
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  17. Michel

    Michel MDL Expert

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    Thank you Yen for that post, i think we will find out soon when they RTM Windows 8 :D. But to tell the true i might stick with Windows 7, i don't like the design of Windows 8. So far i saw 2 little improvements over Windows 7 but that does not change my mind to jump over.
     
  18. blinkomatic

    blinkomatic MDL Novice

    Aug 10, 2009
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    Thanks, that's great!

    Could some admin please edit the first post and include a link to the OA3-summary post over here? I'm sure it'd help those reading through all posts of this thread a lot, time/effort-wise. ^^
     
  19. Yen

    Yen Admin (retired)
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    I will open a new thread with complete infos about preinstalled licenses of windows 8 and windows 8 server.
     
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  20. Jachra

    Jachra MDL Member

    Apr 5, 2010
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    Yen,

    Perhaps this thread should be locked for now. The answer for the question if all Windows 8 OEM needs UEFI has been answered.